Dr. Ricky Rood's Climate Change Blog

Models are Everywhere:
Posted by: Dr. Ricky Rood, 5:56 PM GMT en Julio 30, 2012 +12
Models are Everywhere: Models, Water, and Temperature (3)

This is a series of blogs on models, water, and temperature (see Intro). I am starting with models. In this series, I am trying to develop a way to build a foundation for nonscientists to feel comfortable about models and their use in scientific investigation. I expect to get some feedback on how to do this better from the comments. In order to keep a solid climate theme, I am going to have two sections to the entries. One section will be on models, and the other will be on a research result, new or old, that I think is of particular interest.

Doing Science with Models 1.0: I have written a number of entries over the years introducing the role of models in climate science (Uncertainty (Model Types), Predictable Arguments). You will also find in those entries links to a couple of chapters in books, where I have written introductions to atmospheric modeling for scientists. (most recently, standalone chapter). There are several websites that offer an introduction to climate modeling, for example, We Adapt, climateprediction.net, NASA Earth Observatory, and Koshland Science Museum. A discussion I particularly like is Spencer Weart’s Simple Models of Climate Change. My friends who are expert in education tell me, however, that models, modeling, and the use of models are among the most difficult concepts to both grasp and teach. Often people do not feel comfortable with models as a representation of real things or, in the case of climate, with the real world. The consequences of this discomfort for climate change are far reaching, ranging from challenging how to use the information from models to providing an easy way to grow the political arguments of selective doubt.

Looking at the online resources that introduce climate models, many of them start with words such as “theory,” “numerical,” “computer,” and “mathematical.” They talk about representing the “physics” of the atmosphere, ocean, land, and ice as “coupled systems.” There are different ways that “complexity” is discussed. I often state that climate models are a way to “manage the complexity” of the Earth’s climate or that they are a “comprehensive expression of our accumulated knowledge.” Others talk about complexity in way that comes across as the climate and climate models are complex, and hence, it takes scientists to understand models. I can even find online resources that say that the climate is so complex that it is unreasonable to imagine that humans can build credible climate models. This cloak of complexity is one I will try remove in the series.

When I think about models, the first thing that comes to mind is the half hull of ships that ship builders used to inform the design and building of their ships. Following that thought, there are the models of buildings and shopping centers that are tools of architects and urban planners. These models not only allow seeing how a new building might fit into the environment, but they also serve as a way to, for instance, identify traffic congestion because of placement of parking lots and to communicate the design in the designer’s mind to clients and the public. Another practical example of this form of model is the mockup of, say, the electrical and plumbing systems in a big building to see how things fit together. Similarly, when NASA builds a satellite, there are engineering mockups that are used in design and planning that serve as basic tools to guide thinking about the construction of a complex system and to communicate to others in the project.



Figure 1: Half hulls of boats, a type of model. From Halfhull.com.

This type of model fits into the definition of a work or structure used in testing or perfecting a final product. As described, these are often touchable, real constructions that look like little versions of the real thing. Professionals in the field might call them “toy models,” which is not in any way meant to convey that they are less than serious. Increasingly, these models are represented digitally, using computers, to provide three-dimensional video worlds that you can walk through (Rick Kaplan’s 1963 Mickey Mantle Homerun). All of the details mentioned in this paragraph will, ultimately, be related to climate models; however, the initial point I want to make is that models are everywhere in our world. Rather than models being abstract ideas that are alien, models are, in fact, quite intuitive. They are one of the devices that we use to help think about our complex world. And perhaps more simply, they help in the quick construction of a picnic bench that can sit firmly on the ground and hold up three 200-hundred-pound men.

Interesting Research: Changes in the Arctic: Steering of Storms - Often when we talk of the Earth warming, we talk about the average temperature of the surface of the Earth increasing. It has already been observed, and climate models predict that the Arctic will warm far more and far faster than this average temperature. This is often called “Arctic Amplification.” There are many consequences of the enhanced warming of the Arctic, such as vast changes in northern forests, thawing of the permafrost, and, potentially, the release of large amounts of storages of the greenhouse gases methane and carbon dioxide. (WWF’s Arctic Feedbacks Review)

The specifics of the Earth’s climate are strongly related to the tilt of the Earth on its axis of rotation, the rate of rotation, the distribution of land and water, and the mountains on the land. It is because of these defining attributes of the Earth that we get different regional climate characteristics such as tropical and polar climate zones. In the United States, we mostly live in what atmospheric scientists call the middle latitudes. In the middle latitudes, storms are always working to even out the temperature differences between the tropics and the poles. As the climate warms, it is intuitive that the area of the tropics is likely to get larger, that is, tropical climates will extend closer to the poles. As mentioned above, there are already huge changes in the Arctic.

As the Arctic and tropics change, the jet streams change, and the characteristics of the storms that transport heat from the tropics to the polar region change. There is a very nice recent paper in Geophysical Research Letters by Francis and Vavrus, Evidence linking Arctic amplification to extreme weather in mid-latitudes. If there is a simple takeaway message from this paper, it is that weather features such as storms are moving more slowly and often of greater amplitude. Amplitude? Middle latitude storms are waves and well modeled as waves, and the amplitude of the waves are increasing. The impact of these changes is that weather events are more persistent, leading to more extremes of weather: floods, droughts, heat waves, and cold spells. All of these impacts occur when the weather gets stuck in a particular pattern.

What I specifically like about this paper is how they bring the observations back to fundamental theories and models of atmospheric motion (Holton: Dynamical Meteorology). Dynamical meteorology is a mature field of science with its principles checked in weather forecasting, observational field studies, and numerical modeling. When observations and models and theory are combined in a way that paints a consistent picture, we develop a form of scientific investigation that identifies processes, isolates cause and effect, and help us understand the ingredients of the complexity of the Earth’s climate.

r


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201. JohnLonergan 1:18 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting OldLeatherneck:


We need to retitle his book:

"How Global Warming Threatens Your Future and the Very Existence of Your Children & Grandchildren"


Subtitled:

"And I Don't Give a Damn, I Got Mine"
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202. BobWallace 1:46 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting OldLeatherneck:


Fortunately, "The Globe is Cooling" and the ice won't melt.

How much information do these buffoons need until they understand that we are entering crisis stage at this time???


Watching the ice melt this year, I'm pretty firmly believing that we'll see an Arctic sea ice meltout in 2015 +/- 2 years. I would not be amazed to see it happen next year in 2013.

When that happens, along with all the glacier calving and Greenland melting that will come along with it, there will be an extremely large piece of evidence which cannot be ignored. A satellite shot of the Arctic Ocean free of ice is likely to be a prime motivating event.

Santa's Home is Gone!

Every time one of these fools makes a ridiculous statement about climate change not happening all that should be necessary is to wave a nice big print of that picture and shout "How do you 'splain that Lucy?"

They won't get it, but the other 99% will. And more than half of the 99% is, IMHO, going to start making major noise about "doing something".

That's all we need. A majority of voters adequately alarmed to knock down a few barriers.
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203. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:28 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
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204. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:30 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
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205. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:32 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
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206. BobWallace 2:50 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


What is the scale measured in? Feet? Meters?


Meters

Two meter stuff is roughly second year ice. You can see how little of the really old stuff, >4 year old, is left. A few years back 50% of the Arctic sea ice was 4+ years old, last year it was down to about 10%. It's now dropping lower.

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207. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:51 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
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208. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:59 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
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209. sirmaelstrom 3:27 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
№ 203
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


Thank you. I greatly appreciate your efforts on this. .... No, on the $36 then? Well, do you blame me for trying? ;-)


No...never hurts to try.

And, you're welcome.

Added: Out for the night...Good night.
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210. BobWallace 4:08 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


Thanks, Bob!

Yes, I easily recognized that the thickness of the ice was quickly diminishing and that it covered less area and extent. I just did not know what the scale was set to so that I could better judge what was left there. I was hoping they were at least measuring in fathoms. ;-) .... Ummmmmmmmmm, not much ice is left. How long before we see 65F water temps during the summer in the Arctic Ocean? Or our first subtropical storm making its way across it?



There's a fair amount of 9C/48F sea surface temps inside the Arctic Circle right now. Some 11C/52F creeping in.




Looks like there might be some 16C/62F in the Baltic Sea, north tip, which might officially be in the Circle. It's coming....
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211. Ossqss 4:14 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting JohnLonergan:
Arctic Ice Thickness Animation



Link


The animation almost looks alive, no?

It is quite interesting how pooling water (on ice) absorbs sensing equipment signals.

Do your own homework and see for yourself :)


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212. BobWallace 4:34 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
From a Tamino piece a couple days ago. I think he's got it, except for needing to lower his prediction down from 'end of decade', which he considers...



The impact of global warming is getting clearer, and will soon be obvious even to the hard-core deniers. Arctic sea ice continues its death spiral. Sea level continues to rise. The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets continue to lose mass at an alarming pace, and glaciers worldwide keep shrinking. Species continue to migrate to higher latitudes and altitudes. We’re also seeing more and more signs that the “man in the street” can’t ignore. Since the amazing heat wave in Europe in 2003, we’ve seen amazing heat waves in Australia, Russia, the USA (twice). We’ve seen enhanced drought and record-breaking floods. And to the statisticians at re-insurance giant Munich Re, the increase in weather-related disasters is both huge and certain. This is not normal — and it’s not natural.

In other words, we’re rapidly approaching the moment when denial is no longer possible for the sane. Those who want it not to be so are getting annoyed at nature’s recurrent reminders, so they’re getting more shrill and more desperate. Furthermore, the press is starting to realize that all those times that fake claims from fake skeptics were proved fake, is no accident. It’s a pattern, one they should have heeded all along.

I’ve said before that by the end of this decade global warming will be so f***ing obvious that deniers will be laughed at — at best. Perhaps I should revise the time scale for that prediction, because the obvious is knocking at the door. Who knows, depending on what happens weather-wise over the next few months, maybe Mitt Romney will decide to flip-flop on the issue — again.


Link
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213. Some1Has2BtheRookie 5:05 AM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
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214. RevElvis 12:16 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Oklahoma's plea for help falls on deaf ears as wildfires burn out of control

NBCNews.com

No out-of-state help - Oklahoma has contacted neighboring states for help, but they are contending with their own wildfire threats and no out-of-state help is on its way, Fallin said.

"There's fires in Arkansas. There's fires in Kansas and Texas. Everybody else is on high heat alert," she said.
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215. cyclonebuster 12:34 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
3rd place since 1979.........


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216. JohnLonergan 1:48 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Take a look at CT: Link
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217. BobWallace 1:56 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting RevElvis:
Oklahoma's plea for help falls on deaf ears as wildfires burn out of control

NBCNews.com

No out-of-state help - Oklahoma has contacted neighboring states for help, but they are contending with their own wildfire threats and no out-of-state help is on its way, Fallin said.

"There's fires in Arkansas. There's fires in Kansas and Texas. Everybody else is on high heat alert," she said.


Someone might want to look for a graph on how much we spend per year fighting wildfires. Or the number of acres burned per year. That could be another indicator of how much our rear ends are getting chewed.

I would think our right-of-center friends would be concerned about having to spend a lot of tax money fighting fires....
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218. Neapolitan 2:03 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:


Meters

Two meter stuff is roughly second year ice. You can see how little of the really old stuff, >4 year old, is left. A few years back 50% of the Arctic sea ice was 4+ years old, last year it was down to about 10%. It's now dropping lower.

There'll come a time soon enough when almost all the ice--with the exception of fast ice along Canada's rocky top end--will be of the first year variety. It'll freeze in fall, and revert back to seawater in spring. You know, not like the Arctic ocean, but more like a lake in Minnesota...
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219. Neapolitan 2:12 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:
I think your 10/20 year timelines are a bit extreme, but I do wonder if it might be time to set up a website to record the villains of climate change?

Make it easy for those of the future to get info on people like Inhofe and Sessions in Congress, the Koch brothers in industry, Watts and Forbes in the media....

Let these folks see the reputation they are earning and how future generations are likely to remember them.
For what it's worth, Source Watch is an open-source wiki compiling an impressive amount of detailed info on denialists, their deep industry ties, their numerous errors and missteps and debunkings, and their financial motivations.

Desmog Blog maintains a good list of the primary denialists.

Also, even though it deals with just one corporation, it has a lot of good information: http://www.exxonsecrets.org/maps.php.
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220. Neapolitan 2:14 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting JohnLonergan:
Tamino has posted animations of sea ice area, extent and volume.



Link
I went ahead this morning and threw together an animated version of my PIOMAS "death spiral" chart:

PIOMAS Arctic sea ice volume animation

I find it endlessly fascinating that more than 75% of the Arctic's minimum sea ice has disappeared just since 1979. Incredible...
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221. Doxienan 2:53 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
I went ahead this morning and threw together an animated version of my PIOMAS "death spiral" chart:

PIOMAS Arctic sea ice volume animation

I find it endlessly fascinating that more than 75% of the Arctic's minimum sea ice has disappeared just since 1979. Incredible...



Oh.....my.....god!
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222. greentortuloni 3:03 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
I went ahead this morning and threw together an animated version of my PIOMAS "death spiral" chart:

PIOMAS Arctic sea ice volume animation

I find it endlessly fascinating that more than 75% of the Arctic's minimum sea ice has disappeared just since 1979. Incredible...


Nice site. You should put a blog on there, or at least comments.
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223. Angela Fritz, Atmospheric Scientist (Admin)
5:10 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012
   
Quoting Neapolitan:
I went ahead this morning and threw together an animated version of my PIOMAS "death spiral" chart:

PIOMAS Arctic sea ice volume animation

I find it endlessly fascinating that more than 75% of the Arctic's minimum sea ice has disappeared just since 1979. Incredible...


Nice.
224. JohnLonergan 5:47 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Is Richard Muller's "conversion" genuine or a Trojan Horse? Interesting read at Desdemona Despair.

Climate Wars: Beware the Trojan Horse – Refuting claims of a ‘converted’ skeptic

Link

Note, it's long and their are several links.
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225. RevElvis 6:24 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
How this summer's drought will affect your wallet for the next year

What about food prices?

Counting all types of food, prices could rise an average of 4 percent. Cereals and bakery products will cost more because corn prices already are up 40 percent, and milk commodity prices are up 17 percent. (Heat stress reduces milk production.)

Supermarket prices for beef and pork are falling as farmers sell off herds rather than buy expensive grain for feed or rely on dried-up pastures. The glut of animals headed for slaughter has cut prices paid for cattle by 12 percent.

Because of sustained high temperatures, consumers are buying less meat to cook outdoors, pushing down prices for beef and pork and cutting meatpackers' profits.

Next year, however, meat prices likely will climb by 8 percent or more because there will be fewer cattle and hogs.


Q&A Format
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226. ClimateChange 6:27 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
I created a new blog post. It's about changes in Great Lakes water temperatures and the effects of those changes. There are some pretty incredible graphs I uploaded showing these changes. All of the data is from the NWS. I also look at the plant hardiness zones and conclude the 2011 USDA maps are already obsolete. Parts of northern Ohio, near Lake Erie, are already experiencing zone 7 conditions. Even a simple linear trendline would bring zone 7 to all of northern Ohio and even zone 8 to the Ohio lakeshore by the middle of the century. Once ice no longer forms on the Great Lakes, however, however, I expect a rapid warming of the minimum temperature in the region & suspect it will be much more maritime in nature during the winter months. On a high emissions path, I suspect this could even lead to subtropical or tropical conditions in the region. Question: Do regional models show a (sub)tropical climate developing in the Great Lakes? Anybody know?

Feel free to take a look and comment.

Link
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227. cyclonebuster 7:39 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    

Locked and loaded waiting for Ernesto.....

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228. cyclonebuster 7:51 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
I went ahead this morning and threw together an animated version of my PIOMAS "death spiral" chart:

PIOMAS Arctic sea ice volume animation

I find it endlessly fascinating that more than 75% of the Arctic's minimum sea ice has disappeared just since 1979. Incredible...


Death spiral continues is correct..........

4th day in a row below record level low since 1979....

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229. spbloom 10:33 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting ClimateChange:
I created a new blog post. It's about changes in Great Lakes water temperatures and the effects of those changes. There are some pretty incredible graphs I uploaded showing these changes. All of the data is from the NWS. I also look at the plant hardiness zones and conclude the 2011 USDA maps are already obsolete. Parts of northern Ohio, near Lake Erie, are already experiencing zone 7 conditions. Even a simple linear trendline would bring zone 7 to all of northern Ohio and even zone 8 to the Ohio lakeshore by the middle of the century. Once ice no longer forms on the Great Lakes, however, however, I expect a rapid warming of the minimum temperature in the region & suspect it will be much more maritime in nature during the winter months. On a high emissions path, I suspect this could even lead to subtropical or tropical conditions in the region. Question: Do regional models show a (sub)tropical climate developing in the Great Lakes? Anybody know?

Feel free to take a look and comment.

Link


IIRC in the southern part of the region, yes. A few days ago I saw a graph showing IL as having a climate similar to LA later this century, probably in a Climate Progress post if you want to look. But bear in mind that day length differences (=> greater seasonal extremes) will give a higher-lat subtropical climate somewhat different characteristics.
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230. ClimateChange 11:48 PM GMT en Agosto 04, 2012    
Quoting spbloom:


IIRC in the southern part of the region, yes. A few days ago I saw a graph showing IL as having a climate similar to LA later this century, probably in a Climate Progress post if you want to look. But bear in mind that day length differences (=> greater seasonal extremes) will give a higher-lat subtropical climate somewhat different characteristics.


Yeah, I've seen that graphic. I've even used it on my blog here a couple weeks ago. I'm not sure how length of day would affect things. Other places at the same latitude, such as Rome, have a subtropical climate owing to warm oceanic effects. I was reading an article the other day regarding evidence that palm trees and other (sub)tropical fauna were present in coastal Antarctica 55 mya during the Eocene warm period. This is consistent with other evidence showing palm trees in Wyoming & Montana during the same time frame. CO2 levels were at or above 1000 ppm during that time. Solar luminosity was actually a little below today's level.
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231. RevElvis 12:16 AM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Climate change is here and worse than we thought

James E. Hansen directs the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

When I testified before the Senate in the hot summer of 1988 , I warned of the kind of future that climate change would bring to us and our planet. I painted a grim picture of the consequences of steadily increasing temperatures, driven by mankind%u2019s use of fossil fuels.

But I have a confession to make: I was too optimistic.

My projections about increasing global temperature have been proved true. But I failed to fully explore how quickly that average rise would drive an increase in extreme weather.

In a new analysis of the past six decades of global temperatures, which will be published Monday (8/6/12), my colleagues and I have revealed a stunning increase in the frequency of extremely hot summers, with deeply troubling ramifications for not only our future but also for our present.

Washington Post Editorial (8/3/2012)

New study links current events to climate change

Austin Statesman
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232. spbloom 2:56 AM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting ClimateChange:


Yeah, I've seen that graphic. I've even used it on my blog here a couple weeks ago. I'm not sure how length of day would affect things. Other places at the same latitude, such as Rome, have a subtropical climate owing to warm oceanic effects. I was reading an article the other day regarding evidence that palm trees and other (sub)tropical fauna were present in coastal Antarctica 55 mya during the Eocene warm period. This is consistent with other evidence showing palm trees in Wyoming & Montana during the same time frame. CO2 levels were at or above 1000 ppm during that time. Solar luminosity was actually a little below today's level.


Off the top of my head, I would say the difference is that high-lat has somewhat cooler winters and warmer summers, all else equal. Remember Rome isn't in a very continental location.

Re the Eocene Antartic vegetation, I believe the finding was for the coastal areas. Farther inland had too much of a dark period for such vegetation to manage. At the pole itself, I would expect to have seen tundra featuring lots of mosses and ferns, plus some annuals that could manage the sharp seasonal changes. All of that said, given enough time perhaps palms and similar could adapt somewhat to the cycle. Current such species wouldn't be able to manage at all.
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233. greentortuloni 7:23 AM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Silly comment waiting to go grocery shopping but I can barely get my head around the existential pain of a farmer watching his crops die, then to try to extend it to what is happening/will happen globally. Maybe much less pain now that American farming is so socialized with farm subsidies and so on. But I imagine there is, despite financial help, a part of anyone who farms, a joy and a wearyness unique to that profession and a unique pain in watching crops die. I achnowledge that poems about pain almost always seem to try to make pain bittersweet, when the reality of the experiencer is vary different. But anyway, in commiseration with farmers everywhere in drought:



You shatter me
Your grip on me
A hold on me
So dull it kills
You stifle me
Infectious sense
Of hopelessness and
Prayers for rain
I suffocate
I breathe in dirt
And nowhere shines
But desolate
And drab the hours all spent
On killing time again
All waiting for
The rain

You fracture me
Your hands on me
A touch so plain
So stale it kills
You strangle me
Entangle me
In hopelessness and
Prayers for rain
I deteriorate
I live in dirt
And nowhere glows
But drearily and tired
The hours all spent
On killing time again
All waiting for
The rain

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234. pintada 1:48 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
I have been watching the Navy Ice loop you all know the one:

http://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/hycomARC/navo/arct icictn_nowcast_anim30d.gif



Has anyone else noticed that on about the 2nd or so a huge crack began to form in the thick ice just west of the Lincoln Sea? (Just off the coast of Ward Hunt Island.)

Isn't it a rather gross failure of the model that the crack is ignored? In fact the crack is magically "healed" by the model.

Which of the two chunks of ice is moving? Is the big chunk of ice west of the crack moving to the west (against the current), or is the ice east of the crack moving east?

Does the model consider that the water being swept under the ice by the Arctic Gyre is 8 degrees warmer than the freezing point of seawater?
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235. OldLeatherneck 3:30 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Recipe for a "Polar Slushy"
Elevated SSTs
Gale Force Winds
12 Foot Seas

Mix violently for 3/4 days

This is what is currenlty forecast for portions of the arctic for the next 4 days. Much of the arctic ocean will not be much more than a Bowl of Crushed Ice. With another 46 days left before the Fall Equinox and anomalously high SSTs I can conceive of a great deal (record levels) of ice being melted and/or flushed out of the arctic ocean in the next 6/7 weeks.

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236. BobWallace 3:48 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting OldLeatherneck:
Recipe for a "Polar Slushy"
Elevated SSTs
Gale Force Winds
12 Foot Seas

Mix violently for 3/4 days

This is what is currenlty forecast for portions of the arctic for the next 4 days. Much of the arctic ocean will not be much more than a Bowl of Crushed Ice. With another 46 days left before the Fall Equinox and anomalously high SSTs I can conceive of a great deal (record levels) of ice being melted and/or flushed out of the arctic ocean in the next 6/7 weeks.



Someone asked a few days ago about when we would see a tropical cyclone in the Arctic. Of course, by definition we won't see a "tropical" one because the Arctic is defined outside the tropics. But what looks to be happening fits the rest of the criteria.

This storm promises to stir a lot of remaining ice chunks and warm water together. The action of the wind and waves will break existing ice into smaller, easier to melt pieces. Odds are greater than 50:50 that we'll see some big drops in ice statistics this week....

--

eta: A phrase from someone on Neven's site "a storm driven by the temperature differential between the sea ice and the surrounding environment".

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237. OldLeatherneck 3:52 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:
This storm promises to stir a lot of remaining ice chunks and warm water together. The action of the wind and waves will break existing ice into smaller, easier to melt pieces. Odds are greater than 50:50 that we'll see some big drops in ice statistics this week....


What are your thoughts on whether this year's melt season will last longer than other years due to the elevated SSTs?
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238. BobWallace 4:24 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting OldLeatherneck:


What are your thoughts on whether this year's melt season will last longer than other years due to the elevated SSTs?


Physics would tell us to expect the melt season to last longer and the refreeze to start later. But the "noise of weather" can mess things up.

This may be a most interesting week for the Arctic ice. If the big storm materializes then the ice could be greatly degraded. Someone has pointed out that 10 foot storm waves will mix water from 30 feet down from the surface with the ice.

The surface water is colder than water deeper down due to melting ice. The up-welling of warmer water would melt a lot of ice, so it's more than just ice getting shoved into warmer parts of the ocean.

The idea that we've added a tremendous amount of energy into the Arctic region and that the energy is not evenly distributed makes one think there are large storms in our future.
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239. greentortuloni 4:33 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:


Physics would tell us to expect the melt season to last longer and the refreeze to start later. But the "noise of weather" can mess things up.

This may be a most interesting week for the Arctic ice. If the big storm materializes then the ice could be greatly degraded. Someone has pointed out that 10 foot storm waves will mix water from 30 feet down from the surface with the ice.

The surface water is colder than water deeper down due to melting ice. The up-welling of warmer water would melt a lot of ice, so it's more than just ice getting shoved into warmer parts of the ocean.

The idea that we've added a tremendous amount of energy into the Arctic region and that the energy is not evenly distributed makes one think there are large storms in our future.


The only slight hope I have is the opposite: that once the air is cold enough to form seaice, it will create a calm layer of ice that is insulated by cold water. Thin ice to be sure but the more ice the better, the more to reflect in the spring.

I think we are on thin ice though.
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240. OldLeatherneck 4:34 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:
The idea that we've added a tremendous amount of energy into the Arctic region and that the energy is not evenly distributed makes one think there are large storms in our future.


Not exactly the ideal maritime environment for pleasure craft and/or oil rigs!!
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241. RevElvis 4:35 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Mass grave in London reveals how volcano caused global catastrophe

The Observer

When archaeologists discovered thousands of medieval skeletons in a mass burial pit in east London in the 1990s, they assumed they were 14th-century victims of the Black Death or the Great Famine of 1315-17. Now they have been astonished by a more explosive explanation – a cataclysmic volcano that had erupted a century earlier, thousands of miles away in the tropics, and wrought havoc on medieval Britons.

Scientific evidence – including radiocarbon dating of the bones and geological data from across the globe – shows for the first time that mass fatalities in the 13th century were caused by one of the largest volcanic eruptions of the past 10,000 years.

Such was the size of the eruption that its sulphurous gases would have released a stratospheric aerosol veil or dry fog that blocked out sunlight, altered atmospheric circulation patterns and cooled the Earth's surface. It caused crops to wither, bringing famine, pestilence and death.
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242. BobWallace 4:46 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting greentortuloni:


The only slight hope I have is the opposite: that once the air is cold enough to form seaice, it will create a calm layer of ice that is insulated by cold water. Thin ice to be sure but the more ice the better, the more to reflect in the spring.

I think we are on thin ice though.


What you are describing, I think, is thin seasonal ice. Ice which will melt out the following year.

Arctic ice is doomed unless something happens that lets more ice live for more than a year or two. It's the 3, 4, 5 year old ice that has enough thickness to last out melting phases.

The fish pond outside my window freezes over 100% several times each winter but it never builds enough thickness to withstand the next warmer weather.

We're not building more multi-year ice. We're seeing some of the leftovers melt in place, some moved to warmer parts of the Arctic, and some transported out through the Fram Straight into warm Atlantic water.

Put another way, we're spending our capital and our winter income isn't going to be enough to carry us through. Pretty soon we're likely to go broke by the end of summer. And then we'll start going broke earlier and earlier in the year.
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243. Neapolitan 5:10 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting RevElvis:
Mass grave in London reveals how volcano caused global catastrophe

The Observer

When archaeologists discovered thousands of medieval skeletons in a mass burial pit in east London in the 1990s, they assumed they were 14th-century victims of the Black Death or the Great Famine of 1315-17. Now they have been astonished by a more explosive explanation – a cataclysmic volcano that had erupted a century earlier, thousands of miles away in the tropics, and wrought havoc on medieval Britons.

Scientific evidence – including radiocarbon dating of the bones and geological data from across the globe – shows for the first time that mass fatalities in the 13th century were caused by one of the largest volcanic eruptions of the past 10,000 years.

Such was the size of the eruption that its sulphurous gases would have released a stratospheric aerosol veil or dry fog that blocked out sunlight, altered atmospheric circulation patterns and cooled the Earth's surface. It caused crops to wither, bringing famine, pestilence and death.
There's actually a hardcore group of ardent denialists counting on another similar eruption to save us from ourselves. In fact, some are practically rubbing their palms together in anticipation of just such an event, for it would provide massive opportunities for making money.

--Big Oil and Big Coal would be able to declare an end to warming, and the fickle public would demand the instant drilling and mining of massive fossil fuel reserves to cope with the suddenly cooler winters and summers to come. Imagine how many more billions of tons of unregulated, unimpeded CO2 could be belched into the environment where it would, of course, still be once the volcanic particulates had settled down and stopped having an effect? Why, we could probably jump to 600ppm in a matter of five years--and with those pesky climate change Cassandras effectively silenced, to boot!

--Millions of people currently living on a borderline subsistence would be forgotten about, as food resources would be redirected inward; the U.S, for example, wouldn't be able to justify sending wheat overseas when we'd need every grain of it to feed our own people. The starvation deaths of probably millions--perhaps tens or even hundreds of millions--would lead to calls for rapid development of franken-foods; you can be sure such stalwarts as Monsanto would be right at the head of the pack forcing people to eat unregulated but highly profitable GMOs and the like.

--There would be massive competition for limited and dwindling resources. And that means only one thing: war! The war machine, currently idling along during this relatively peaceful time, would be able to ramp up to an unprecedented level; why, there'd be trillions to be made in outfitting all the new and expanded armies!

--The anti-science hysteria at home and abroad would mount to a fever pitch; after all, scientists who had been warning of warming "lied" to them, or so we'd be told. Goaded by Fox, et al, this would give profit-over-people forces carte blanche do pretty much whatever they wanted with little to no regulation or oversight. When people are starving--as we'd constantly be reminded--no one should have to be bothered with clean air or water standards, or fuel efficieny standards, or oil spill prevention measures.

And so on. Depending how severe and longlasting the eruption, the event could in effect be the death knell for mankind as we know it. Though there'd doubtless be many new billionaires, and maybe the world's first trillionaires, which would, sadly, make some incredibly and sickly happy.

Yeah, those hoping for a volcanic megaeruption to save us from our GW/CC mess are clearly suffering from a terminal case of shortsightedness...
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244. Neapolitan 5:11 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:
Put another way, we're spending our capital and our winter income isn't going to be enough to carry us through. Pretty soon we're likely to go broke by the end of summer. And then we'll start going broke earlier and earlier in the year.
That is an excellent and very apt analogy.
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245. greentortuloni 5:37 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:


What you are describing, I think, is thin seasonal ice. Ice which will melt out the following year.

Arctic ice is doomed unless something happens that lets more ice live for more than a year or two. It's the 3, 4, 5 year old ice that has enough thickness to last out melting phases.

The fish pond outside my window freezes over 100% several times each winter but it never builds enough thickness to withstand the next warmer weather.

We're not building more multi-year ice. We're seeing some of the leftovers melt in place, some moved to warmer parts of the Arctic, and some transported out through the Fram Straight into warm Atlantic water.

Put another way, we're spending our capital and our winter income isn't going to be enough to carry us through. Pretty soon we're likely to go broke by the end of summer. And then we'll start going broke earlier and earlier in the year.


Yes, that is what I was talking about. I am hoping that there is some mitigating effect. I really stopped trying to think deeply on this blog a few months ago, personal habit kept me here (which I am trying to break but it is hard to work constantly on-line and not check in). So I comment casually as in a conversation.

The reason is that I don't think there is anything to say. "Were doom" to quote Taz' famous line. I think all the serious conversation is like keeping a diary while the plane crashes. Maybe the next civilization will find our black box and understand what we did wrong.

1. Technology will not put the genie back in the bottle.

2. Drought, famine, disease, heat, lack of oxygen --> total breakdown of ecosystem.

3. If we are not killed right away, we will kill each other fighting for survival. There are good, amazingly courageous acts by humans. But those are acts, like the battle of Britain, they won't save us from fighting and destroying ourselves.

4. Maybe we don't have the moral right to succeed anyway. We slaughter our fellow animals by the billions, watch the Olympics while millions die in Africa, we put the military-industrial complex ahead of morality (e.g. Russia and China in Syria, but everyone is guilty of that), we torture, rape, scorn, hurt, etc each other.

5. We hide behind our idea of god either to justify what we do to each other or because after we are done treating each other that way, we are just bullies that cry in the night and ask god to save us.

the only way I can think of to justify our continuing existence is that the universe doesn't seem much better, and maybe we are evolving to something better, a la Star Trek.

I will try, like millions of other people, to find a solution. Bike aren't enough. However, i'm not going to take dissecting the death throes of the world ecology seriously unless I can learn how to stop it.
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246. Some1Has2BtheRookie 5:37 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
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247. Some1Has2BtheRookie 5:44 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
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248. BobWallace 6:00 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


You are correct, Bob. Due to the Arctic regions being well outside of the tropical zones, I should have more correctly asked when we would see a storm with tropical characteristics form in the Arctic Ocean. A storm that becomes warm core instead of being cold core.


I'm pretty sure we all realized what you were asking. But I thought that bringing back the "tropic" part would help some people better understand that there is a great, big nasty storm appearing to form north of the 60 degree latitude. One caused by the same factors which cause the hurricanes that get our weather-weenies so excited.

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249. OldLeatherneck 6:30 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:


I'm pretty sure we all realized what you were asking. But I thought that bringing back the "tropic" part would help some people better understand that there is a great, big nasty storm appearing to form north of the 60 degree latitude. One caused by the same factors which cause the hurricanes that get our weather-weenies so excited.



Another thing to consider, if violent storms in the arctic increase in frequency and intensity it will accelerate the erosion along the arctic shorelines, which I believe is losing about 0.5 meters/year. This of course releases more Carbon into the atmosphere. YEAH TEAM!!
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250. BobWallace 6:45 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Here's what the US Navy is predicting will be happening to the Arctic ice five days from now...




That's a lot of the oldest, thickest Central Arctic Basin (CAB) ice being slung into melt areas. The remaining multi-year ice (MYI).

Now we know that it's hard to forecast the weather very far in advance but it is pretty clear that a large storm is forming and should be impressive by tomorrow.

If this happens it not only will speed the melting of thinner ice but also attack the thicker MYI of the CAB.

As we lose the Arctic coldness we experience slower jet stream waves/shifts which, in turn, means longer droughts?

We also put more moisture into the atmosphere which means more floods and massive snowfalls.
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251. Snowlover123 6:46 PM GMT en Agosto 05, 2012    
Quoting BobWallace:


Every time one of these fools makes a ridiculous statement about climate change not happening all that should be necessary is to wave a nice big print of that picture and shout "How do you 'splain that Lucy?"

They won't get it, but the other 99% will.


It's not a question of whether climate change is occuring or not, or whether humans are contributing, it is a question of how much humans are contributing.

Frankly, I can make a solid case that most of the warming over the last 150 years is natural, and this claim is backed up by an enormous amount of scientific literature.

One of the negative feedbacks that arises from an albedo and Sea Ice decline in the Arctic, is that in the early fall, since there is more open water exposed than before in the Arctic, the Arctic radiates more heat to space than if it were to be fully ice covered, and therefore the ice in the Wintertime makes a approach to more normal levels than during the summer, therefore slowing the decline to an ice free summer, and providing a strong negative feedback. As for the ice this year? I am making a prediction that it falls in between 2008/2010. There will be an extremely cold pattern in the Arctic over the next 10 or so days, that will help to preserve ice in the Arctic, the large daily melts we are seeing should slow down significantly, because of an anomalous-DA forming in the Arctic.

The SLP forming in the Arctic is highly unusual, and is over 24 dm below normal at 500 mb.

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About RickyRood
I'm a professor at U Michigan and lead a course on climate change problem solving. These articles include ideas from the course. And no tuition!

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