Dr. Ricky Rood's Climate Change Blog

Just Temperature
Posted by: Dr. Ricky Rood, 3:19 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012 +15
Just Temperature:

The U.S. has just experienced an intense heat event with many records falling in the eastern half of the U.S. Here is Chris Burt’s post on the historic event. There is an excellent discussion of this event and its relation to a warming climate by Andrew Freedman at Climate Central. (Global Warming May Have Fueled March Heat Odds) I have a talk to give next week, and I am sure that the heat will contribute to questions. A question that has been put to me frequently in the past weeks is that should we expect such high temperatures in the future?

Usually when I talk about evidence of a warming, I talk about coherent and convergent evidence. That is, one can’t just look at the global surface temperature data and state that the planet has warmed. But if you look at the surface temperature data along with many other sources of data, then one finds that the evidence of warming is overwhelming. If you add the impacts of this warming to ecosystems, for example, the observations that spring is coming earlier over most of the land area in the Northern Hemisphere, then the evidence becomes smothering. For me and many others this evidence of warming is convincing, but it relies on pulling together information from many sources, explaining their relationships, and presentation of the information. So as people have asked me about the heat in Michigan and Maine this past week, I have thought of what I could do with just temperature. Here is the thread that I put together.

The last month when the global mean monthly average was below the 20th century average was February 1985. Here is a picture of the difference from the 100 year average of temperature data from each February. It has been 324 months since there was a month below the global average temperature. (Not 324 Februarys, 324 consecutive months.) Looking at the graph, the Southern Hemisphere, which is dominated by the ocean, goes back into the 1970s. There have been Februarys in the Northern Hemisphere with little blips below average.



Figure 1: February monthly difference from a 20th century average of all Februarys. From the National Climatic Data Center.

The average in this figure is based on the entire 20th century. Therefore, if you look at the record during the 20th century, there is a balance between the warm and the cold months. This fact comes directly from the definition of calculating the differences from an average. There is a famous 1930s warm period. This warm period is present in the February time series, but compared with a later span centered around 1960, this period in not as intense. A prominent characteristic of the graph is that on the left, in the first part of the 20th century, it is cooler than the average and on the right, the here and now, it is warmer.

To go along with the February graph, I have placed the graph from August 2011. The main part of the story, that in 1900 it was cooler than in 2000 remains the same. Here, in the Northern Hemisphere summer, the 1930s warm period is more prominent and more global than in February. In is easy to conclude from this figure that the spatial extent and the temporal persistent of the current warming are both far larger than in the spurt of warmth of the 1930s.



Figure 2: August monthly difference from a 20th century average of all Augusts. From the National Climatic Data Center.


I started this article with the question is the current heat event in the U.S. what we can expect in the future? Taking this simple argument, looking at the average for the past, almost 30 years, it seems reasonable to expect it be warm. And given, the relentless increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, we should expect it to be warmer in the future. To expect otherwise would be betting against the average.

Betting against the average – the next plot, Figure 3, is adapted from a 2009 paper by Jerry Meehl and a host of other authors. (Original Paper, Paper Discussion from NCAR ) What this figure shows, for the U.S., is the number of new record highs divided by the number of record lows – the ratio of highs to lows. In a simplistic, intuitive way, if the average temperature where staying the same, then one would expect the number of new record highs and the number of new record lows to be about the same. What is seen in the figure is as we go from the 1980s to the 1990s to the 2000s, there is trend of record highs out numbering record lows by a factor of 2 to 1. Comparing this with Figures 1 and 2, this evolution of new record highs outpacing new record lows occurs during the time when there has not been a month below the global 20th century average.



Figure 3: Adapted from Meehl et al. (2009) the ratio of U.S. record highs and record lows by decade.

The next figure I show is another version of the global difference figure. This one is calculated as differences from 1950 onwards in order to overlap with the data from the Climate Prediction Center that identify El Nino and La Nina Cycles. El Nino and La Nina are names given to frequently occurring patterns of variation that are concentrated in the tropical Pacific Ocean, but that change the average temperature of Earth for about a year. When there is an El Nino then the globe is warmer and when there is a La Nina the globe is cooler.



Figure 4: Global temperature differences with El Nino (warm) and La Nina (cool) years marked. From National Climatic Data Center.

Looking first at the La Nina years, 1985, the last year when the Earth was cooler that the 20th century average was a La Nina year. One could say that this was the last year when the variation associated with La Nina was strong enough to counter the warming trend enough for the Earth to appear “cool.” What is striking is that the La Nina years in the past three decades are systematically warming. This suggests that in the La Nina cool period, we are seeing a warmer and warmer background, average, temperature evolving.

The warm phase of this variation does not paint as easy a picture. The very strong 1997-1998 El Nino famously raised the Earth’s temperature to a point that many argue was the warmest year observed. The subsequent El Nino events are not as strong as the 1997-1998 El Nino, and each one has temperature maximum that flirts with the 1998 maximum. It is important to note that in 1998 the entire positive anomaly of temperature was not due to the presence of El Nino. The El Nino events take place on a background of increasing temperature, and each event is a burst towards new historic highs in temperature. It is useful to look back earlier in the graph, say 1970 and earlier, to get an idea of the size of variation that can be associated with El Nino and La Nina.

Returning again to the question posed in the beginning, can we expect to regularly see such warm temperatures going forward? Yes, it makes sense that we will see more and more record high temperatures. To not expect that is to bet against the emerging observed trend of warmer and warmer temperatures that is a metric of the warming climate.

I will finish this just temperature story with a map of the Plant Hardiness Zones. Here is the official version from the US Department of Agriculture with an service that lets you pick out your zip code. I show a map of Michigan. In 1990 the green zones, 6, were down around the Ohio River in southern Ohio. This is a measure of not only warming, but also of the definitive changes in the onset of spring. The Washington Post has an excellent graphic that shows the changes between 1990 and 2012.



Figure 5: Plant hardiness zones in Michigan for 2012. From US Department of Agriculture.

We have just experienced in the U.S. a record extreme heat event. This raises the natural questions of climate, weather, and climate change. I have linked a couple of excellent discussions of these issues in the opening paragraph. What I have done in my article is to focus simply on temperature. I have laid out a thread that starts from the globe and the remarkable observation that we have not seen a month below the 20th century global average in more than 25 years. This I followed with the observation that we are in a time when we are setting more than twice as many record highs as record lows. After that I discussed the role of one of the most prominent forms of planetary temperature variations, El Nino and La Nina. The compelling point from this graph was that in the past 30 years during the cool phase, La Nina, the planet shows a warming trend. Finally, I introduce the plant hardiness zones, which show warmer winters, and can be translated to earlier springs. So the question that has been posed to me last week, can we expect such high temperatures in the future? Yes. If we use our experience and observations for the basis of decision making, then the rational answer is yes. We will see more records. We will see an earlier spring. We will see warmer times.


r


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1. Some1Has2BtheRookie 4:00 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012    
Thank you, Professor Rood.

The evidence of a warming climate are everywhere, should one choose to observe it. What continues to both amaze me and to befuddle me is there seems to be so many that would want to see bikini clad women sunbathing along Alaska's beaches or Caribbean cruise ships anchored in Lake Okeechobee before the evidence of a warming climate would become convincing enough for them. I would imagine that no one alive today will live long enough to see these events unfold. So, in my way of thinking, they may never be convinced that our climate is warming, regardless of lesser evidence that it doing so, during their lifetime. Put simply, those that deny the physical observations before them now will probably continue to deny the physical observations their entire life. ... Ignorance may be bliss, but a self induced ignorance is simply a shame.
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2. Neapolitan 4:15 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012    
Quoting Ricky Rood:
So the question that has been posed to me last week, can we expect such high temperatures in the future? Yes. If we use our experience and observations for the basis of decision making, then the rational answer is yes. We will see more records. We will see an earlier spring. We will see warmer times.
That's it in a very scary nutsehll, ain't it?

I can't help but look at that Washington Post plant hardiness zone slide comparison to which you alluded and be reminded of the receding of the glaciers--only at a very greatly increased pace.
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3. Neapolitan 4:24 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012    
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:
Thank you, Professor Rood.

The evidence of a warming climate are everywhere, should one choose to observe it. What continues to both amaze me and to befuddle me is there seems to be so many that would want to see bikini clad women sunbathing along Alaska's beaches or Caribbean cruise ships anchored in Lake Okeechobee before the evidence of a warming climate would become convincing enough for them. I would imagine that no one alive today will live long enough to see these events unfold. So, in my way of thinking, they may never be convinced that our climate is warming, regardless of lesser evidence that it doing so, during their lifetime. Put simply, those that deny the physical observations before them now will probably continue to deny the physical observations their entire life. ... Ignorance may be bliss, but a self induced ignorance is simply a shame.
Excellent comment. Those perpetually demanding more data and more evidence are at this point delusional, and not much different than, say, a newly obese man denying his condition. "Yes, the scales say I'm much heavier, but they could be wrong. And it's true that I can't wear anything I bought two years ago, but it's possible that the clothing shrunk, isn't it? I have no energy or endurance, my blood pressure is skyrocketing, my living room floor sags when I sit down, and when I look in the mirror after showering I remind myself of Bibendum. But, still, it could be something besides my hearty appetite causing all these changes, so I'm just going to keep stuffing my face at every meal; what if I starve myself for no reason?!"
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4. JupiterKen 6:48 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012    
Link

OK...I am now convinced.
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5. Patrap 6:55 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012    
The World, dosent give a darn as to what any single Human believes, as it matters not.

Truth is above what any single Human's conflicted thinking derives for that individual.

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6. NeapolitanFan 7:05 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012    
The Arctic doesn't believe the world is warming:

Link
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7. Neapolitan 8:02 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012    
Quoting JupiterKen:
Link

OK...I am now convinced.
Glad to hear it. Welcome aboard the Sane Train!
Quoting NeapolitanFan:
The Arctic doesn't believe the world is warming:

Link
Really? Which fantasy Arctic are you looking at?
Member Since: Noviembre 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11175
8. Birthmark 11:53 PM GMT en Marzo 25, 2012    
It will be interesting to see what happens with the next strong El Niño and temperature.

Quoting NeapolitanFan:
The Arctic doesn't believe the world is warming:

Link


Congratulations on your independent discovery of Northern Hemisphere winter!

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9. iceagecoming 1:15 AM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Recovery in Arctic sea ice continues


Paul Hudson | 17:35 UK time, Wednesday, 21 March 2012

Arctic sea ice has staged a strong recovery in the last few weeks, reaching levels not far from normal for this time of the year.




Link

Y'all must've missed dissin' one.
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10. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:09 AM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting iceagecoming:
Recovery in Arctic sea ice continues


Paul Hudson | 17:35 UK time, Wednesday, 21 March 2012

Arctic sea ice has staged a strong recovery in the last few weeks, reaching levels not far from normal for this time of the year.




Link

Y'all must've missed dissin' one.


"The rise is all the more impressive, since February saw the 5th lowest ice extent since satellite records began in 1979, and until recently ice extent has been hovering close to record low levels."

Looks like we are going to be skating on a lot of thin ice this summer, boys. That is if the winds and currents don't float it all out first. Then what? ... Water skiing, anyone?
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11. Birthmark 2:53 AM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting iceagecoming:
Recovery in Arctic sea ice continues


Paul Hudson | 17:35 UK time, Wednesday, 21 March 2012

Arctic sea ice has staged a strong recovery in the last few weeks, reaching levels not far from normal for this time of the year.




Link

Y'all must've missed dissin' one.

I understand what you are trying to say. What I don't understand is why you try to say it here. You know that "sea ice is recovering" stuff has a shelf life of about 60 minutes. Seems to me like a lot of trouble to go to for 60 minutes of...glory?...whatever, followed by embarrassment of much longer duration when someone puts the information in its correct context, as Rookie just did 54 minutes after your post.

So help me out here. Why do you post obviously wrong, misleading, or out of context information? I'm seriously curious.
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14. Neapolitan 8:43 AM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting iceagecoming:
Recovery in Arctic sea ice continues


Paul Hudson | 17:35 UK time, Wednesday, 21 March 2012

Arctic sea ice has staged a strong recovery in the last few weeks, reaching levels not far from normal for this time of the year.




Link

Y'all must've missed dissin' one.
Pssst--Area and extent =/= volume. Now, with that in mind: does this look "not far from normal"?

ice

But if you insist on talking about area, let's talk about area. The maximum area this year--which happened just four days ago--was 13.7 million km2. To find a year with so much ice at the peak, one would have to go all the way back to 2010, which had 13.81 million km2. Or 2009, with 13.85 million. Or 2008, with 13.90.

Three truisms:

1) One year does not a recovery make.

2) Arctic Sea ice will be gone in summer within just a few years.

3) Paul Hudson knows as much about climate change as I do about brain surgery.

Silly denialists...
Member Since: Noviembre 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11175
15. iceagecoming 11:23 AM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
Pssst--Area and extent =/= volume. Now, with that in mind: does this look "not far from normal"?

ice

But if you insist on talking about area, let's talk about area. The maximum area this year--which happened just four days ago--was 13.7 million km2. To find a year with so much ice at the peak, one would have to go all the way back to 2010, which had 13.81 million km2. Or 2009, with 13.85 million. Or 2008, with 13.90.

Three truisms:

1) One year does not a recovery make.

2) Arctic Sea ice will be gone in summer within just a few years.

3) Paul Hudson knows as much about climate change as I do about brain surgery.

Silly denialists...


REALLY, well it just goes to show how many scientists don't agree with your viewpoint.



Hello, I’m Paul Hudson, weather presenter and climate correspondent for BBC Look North in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. I've been interested in the weather and climate for as long as I can remember, and worked as a forecaster with the Met Office for more than ten years locally and at the international unit before joining the BBC in October 2007. Here I divide my time between forecasting and reporting on stories about climate change and its implications for people's everyday lives.



Television

He can be seen on both editions of the regional news programme Look North, from Leeds (serving North, West and South Yorkshire and the North Midlands) and Hull (serving East Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and north Norfolk). He returned to the BBC Yorkshire weather centre from the Met Office's old home of Bracknell in 1997 when Darren Bett left to present national forecasts. He has currently had the most effective and reliable report in the country over the winter period of November 2010
[edit] BBC climate change correspondent

Although most BBC forecasters are not directly employed by the BBC, but by the MOD's Met Office, since 2007 Paul is now a full-time member of BBC staff, not the Met Office, acting as an environmental and climate change expert. He gives talks on the subject to local organisations and school and has appeared on BBC One's Morning Show.



Few things are so deadly as a misguided sense of compassion.
Charles Colson



Member Since: Enero 27, 2009 Posts: 21 Comments: 852
16. Neapolitan 12:27 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting iceagecoming:


REALLY, well it just goes to show how many scientists don't agree with your viewpoint.



Hello, I’m Paul Hudson, weather presenter and climate correspondent for BBC Look North in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. I've been interested in the weather and climate for as long as I can remember, and worked as a forecaster with the Met Office for more than ten years locally and at the international unit before joining the BBC in October 2007. Here I divide my time between forecasting and reporting on stories about climate change and its implications for people's everyday lives.



Television

He can be seen on both editions of the regional news programme Look North, from Leeds (serving North, West and South Yorkshire and the North Midlands) and Hull (serving East Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and north Norfolk). He returned to the BBC Yorkshire weather centre from the Met Office's old home of Bracknell in 1997 when Darren Bett left to present national forecasts. He has currently had the most effective and reliable report in the country over the winter period of November 2010
[edit] BBC climate change correspondent

Although most BBC forecasters are not directly employed by the BBC, but by the MOD's Met Office, since 2007 Paul is now a full-time member of BBC staff, not the Met Office, acting as an environmental and climate change expert. He gives talks on the subject to local organisations and school and has appeared on BBC One's Morning Show.



Few things are so deadly as a misguided sense of compassion.
Charles Colson



That's a great quote you use from Colson, as it fits Hudson perfectly: yet another TV meteorologist convinced that his knowledge of weather translates into expertise on climate.
Member Since: Noviembre 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11175
17. Balwanz 12:33 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Here, in Richmond VA, not long ago we experienced 5 degree winter lows. Now our winter lows are slightly above 15. This places us in a climate zone of Georgia and Northern Florida.

Pine bark beetles are devastating out local Virginia black pines, which seem likely to be replaced by more Southern, beetle-resistant loblollies. This new climate zone however, in Georgia and Florida, features palms rather than pines. Particularly apparent are vast areas of low-growing screw palms.

Could this be actually happening?
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18. overwash12 1:21 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Looking at all the historical graphs,we should see a sharp drop in temps then, in the coming years! Any thoughts? TIA
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19. Some1Has2BtheRookie 1:29 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Balwanz:
Here, in Richmond VA, not long ago we experienced 5 degree winter lows. Now our winter lows are slightly above 15. This places us in a climate zone of Georgia and Northern Florida.

Pine bark beetles are devastating out local Virginia black pines, which seem likely to be replaced by more Southern, beetle-resistant loblollies. This new climate zone however, in Georgia and Florida, features palms rather than pines. Particularly apparent are vast areas of low-growing screw palms.

Could this be actually happening?


Some of the more cold tolerant palms are already native to the Richmond area. We will have to wait to see if the less cold resistant palms will establish there as well. The only thing I can offer to you is what I have seen of what happens in nature. Every place we look on Earth, we find some form of life. Should the Richmond area become favorable for the less cold resistant palms to exist, then I feel it is almost certain that they will find their way there. Eventually, they may even become the new native to the region.
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20. cyclonebuster 1:30 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


"The rise is all the more impressive, since February saw the 5th lowest ice extent since satellite records began in 1979, and until recently ice extent has been hovering close to record low levels."

Looks like we are going to be skating on a lot of thin ice this summer, boys. That is if the winds and currents don't float it all out first. Then what? ... Water skiing, anyone?


No not water skiing more like more oil drilling.
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21. Neapolitan 1:32 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
Looking at all the historical graphs,we should see a sharp drop in temps then, in the coming years! Any thoughts? TIA
Uh--what?
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22. cyclonebuster 1:34 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
Pssst--Area and extent =/= volume. Now, with that in mind: does this look "not far from normal"?

ice

But if you insist on talking about area, let's talk about area. The maximum area this year--which happened just four days ago--was 13.7 million km2. To find a year with so much ice at the peak, one would have to go all the way back to 2010, which had 13.81 million km2. Or 2009, with 13.85 million. Or 2008, with 13.90.

Three truisms:

1) One year does not a recovery make.

2) Arctic Sea ice will be gone in summer within just a few years.

3) Paul Hudson knows as much about climate change as I do about brain surgery.

Silly denialists...


How many standard deviations is this years peak still below the 1979-2011 mean value???? And the





call that a recovery...........LOL!
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23. Some1Has2BtheRookie 1:35 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
Looking at all the historical graphs,we should see a sharp drop in temps then, in the coming years! Any thoughts? TIA


I am not certain as to what area and time period you are talking about, overwash12. As a general comment, I am no longer certain that historical graphs will have much play on what the future graphs will be. Other than, "that was then and this is now" type of comparisons.
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24. overwash12 1:46 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
Uh--what?
Link Looking at the big picture,not the last 40 years!
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25. overwash12 1:54 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


I am not certain as to what area and time period you are talking about, overwash12. As a general comment, I am no longer certain that historical graphs will have much play on what the future graphs will be. Other than, "that was then and this is now" type of comparisons.
So you think we are going up and never coming back down? Sure we have a little impact,but not to the degree everybody is screaming about. The Earth being covered by 74% water,then thousands of sq. miles of uninhabited land,deserts,jungles,Greenland,Antarctica!
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26. Neapolitan 2:06 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
Link Looking at the big picture,not the last 40 years!
There are a lot of spurious and fraudulent charts and graphs floating around DenialWorld, but this is one of the most egregiously unscientific of them all--not to mention its sheer laughability quotient. ;-)
Quoting overwash12:
So you think we are going up and never coming back down? Sure we have a little impact,but not to the degree everybody is screaming about. The Earth being covered by 74% water,then thousands of sq. miles of uninhabited land,deserts,jungles,Greenland,Antarctica!
Yes, temps will keep rising until/unless we stop burning fossil fuels at such an insane rate.
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27. overwash12 2:14 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
There are a lot of spurious and fraudulent charts and graphs floating around DenialWorld, but this is one of the most egregiously unscientific of them all--not to mention its sheer laughability quotient. ;-)Yes, temps will keep rising until/unless we stop burning fossil fuels at such an insane rate.
We know the Earth was much warmer at one time(at least some of us) . WE know the Earth was much colder at one time. This all happened how? Are we not subject to the same set of physics and astronomical cycles as in the past?
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28. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:20 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
So you think we are going up and never coming back down? Sure we have a little impact,but not to the degree everybody is screaming about. The Earth being covered by 74% water,then thousands of sq. miles of uninhabited land,deserts,jungles,Greenland,Antarctica!


I do not envision that there will be anything to drive temperatures back down, in the short term. This is unless there are other major events that come into play such as an eruption of a super volcano or something else that would put a lot of sun blocking particulates into the atmosphere. These particulates would only remain in the atmosphere, depending on the event(s), for a short period of time and then the warming trend would continue. A shift in the Earth's tilt or a variation in our orbit around the Sun could also come into play. I have no reason to suspect that these are upcoming, near term events.

I can not wager an opinion of what Earth's climate will be like in another 1,000 years. My opinion of what Earth's climate will be like in 100 years is a continued warming from what we see today.
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29. overwash12 2:44 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


I do not envision that there will be anything to drive temperatures back down, in the short term. This is unless there are other major events that come into play such as an eruption of a super volcano or something else that would put a lot of sun blocking particulates into the atmosphere. These particulates would only remain in the atmosphere, depending on the event(s), for a short period of time and then the warming trend would continue. A shift in the Earth's tilt or a variation in our orbit around the Sun could also come into play. I have no reason to suspect that these are upcoming, near term events.

I can not wager an opinion of what Earth's climate will be like in another 1,000 years. My opinion of what Earth's climate will be like in 100 years is a continued warming from what we see today.
I don't know either Rookie! We need to find better ways to utilize our use of fossil fuels,for sure! I am all for that. I try my best to conserve and use everything to the utmost. I am even building my own solar hot water heater this summer,I'll let you know how that goes. Thanks for all your input! Oh,the solar water heater should really take off with a layer of CO2 around it! LOL
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30. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:51 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
We know the Earth was much warmer at one time(at least some of us) . WE know the Earth was much colder at one time. This all happened how? Are we not subject to the same set of physics and astronomical cycles as in the past?


Yes, the same physics and astrological cycles of the past still apply today and into the future.

There have been various events that have taken place, over the life of Earth, that would create a warming or a cooling of the climate. Shifts in our orbit, a warming sun, a change in the tilt of our axis, the gradual slowing of Earth's rotation, the slow departure of our moon from its orbit around Earth. All of these are processes that happen very, very slowly, but fairly quickly in astrological terms.

Earth has also seen much greater volcanic activities than we see today and cosmic collisions that also changed the climate. Depending on what was in the atmosphere before, and at what percentages, and what was in the atmosphere after these events would very much determine what the climate would be. Warmer or cooler. A greater amount of particulates in the atmosphere would have a tendency to cool the climate. A greater amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere would have a tendency to warm the climate. The chemical makeup of the atmosphere and the oceans have not remained static throughout the life of our planet. The climate would change accordingly.

What we are seeing today are our efforts towards changing the world. Should our efforts be planned or unplanned and should the effects of this be intentional or unintentional, we are changing the world. Should the end results be good, bad or indifferent is up to us now. Not later, but now. The same physics and astrological events that dictated what happen before are still in play today. We cannot pass a vote that changes the physics of the universe. What the physics are is not a reflection of what we want the physics to be.
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31. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:56 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
I don't know either Rookie! We need to find better ways to utilize our use of fossil fuels,for sure! I am all for that. I try my best to conserve and use everything to the utmost. I am even building my own solar hot water heater this summer,I'll let you know how that goes. Thanks for all your input! Oh,the solar water heater should really take off with a layer of CO2 around it! LOL


We need more people like you, overwash12. People that will act on the knowledge of what we do know now and not sit on their thumbs until they figure that we now know it all. We NEED more people like you, overwash12. Thank you!
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32. overwash12 3:14 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


We need more people like you, overwash12. People that will act on the knowledge of what we do know now and not sit on their thumbs until they figure that we now know it all. We NEED more people like you, overwash12. Thank you!
Oh,Thanks Rookie. I hope ya'll get more rain this summer. I hate dry summers! I'll leave now,got to get some sleep for the graveyard!
Member Since: Junio 24, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 1052
33. iceagecoming 4:32 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
That's a great quote you use from Colson, as it fits Hudson perfectly: yet another TV meteorologist convinced that his knowledge of weather translates into expertise on climate.


Here are a few that agree with Paul Hudson;
I suppose they don't count either:

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical...The main basis of the claim that man’s release of greenhouse gases is the cause of the warming is based almost entirely upon climate models. We all know the frailty of models concerning the air-surface system.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology, and formerly of NASA, who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”



Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.



“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.



“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future warming.” - Scientist Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace member.



“Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.” - Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo. Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar interaction with the Earth.

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico
“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.


“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.


“The Kyoto theorists have put the cart before the horse. It is global warming that triggers higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way round…A large number of critical documents submitted at the 1995 U.N. conference in Madrid vanished without a trace. As a result, the discussion was one-sided and heavily biased, and the U.N. declared global warming to be a scientific fact,” Andrei Kapitsa, a Russian geographer and Antarctic ice core researcher.


“I am convinced that the current alarm over carbon dioxide is mistaken...Fears about man-made global warming are unwarranted and are not based on good science.” - Award Winning Physicist Dr. Will Happer, Professor at the Department of Physics at Princeton University and Former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy, who has published over 200 scientific papers, and is a fellow of the American Physical Society, The American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the National Academy of Sciences.



“Nature's regulatory instrument is water vapor: more carbon dioxide leads to less moisture in the air, keeping the overall GHG content in accord with the necessary balance conditions.” – Prominent Hungarian Physicist and environmental researcher Dr. Miklós Zágoni reversed his view of man-made warming and is now a skeptic. Zágoni was once Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol.


“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.


“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.



Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
Aldous Huxley




Armenia – Zvartnots and Shirak international airports are closed due to heavy snowfall.[4]
Azerbaijan – On 8 February, temperatures in Baku dropped to −14 °C (7 °F), breaking a 42-year-old record.[5] Baku international airport also suffered a serious problems and had to cancel some flights.
Belarus – Early in the day on 30 January, subzero temperatures spread rapidly, data accessed by AccuWeather showed.[6] According to meteoinfo.by, on the night of 11 through 12 February, temperatures in the Brahin Raion dropped to −34.3 °C (−29.7 °F). According to National Agency BielTA, from 1 January, more than 180 people died in domestic fires. Total number of casualties remain unknown.[7]
Bulgaria – Nearly 150 cm (4.9 ft) of snow has fallen, with one man dying of hypothermia as his car was covered in snow.[8] Meteoalarm issued snow warnings for western Bulgaria, wind warnings for central parts and rain warnings for eastern areas of the country.[9] Temperatures have been consistently under −10 °C (14 °F) for more than a week with a low reading of −30 °C (−22 °F) on two different occasions in Knezha. The wall of the Ivanovo dam in southern Haskovo Province broke, flooding the village of Biser and killing 11 people in addition to inflicting serious infrastructure damage. At least 16 other deaths have been reported throughout the country due to frostbite or exhaustion.
Croatia – As of 6 February, 3 people died,[10] with concerns of many villages being cut off, especially near Vrgorac.
Cyprus – On the 29 February, snow was reported as falling in the capital, Nicosia.
France – On the 6 February, BBC News reported 4 deaths, and 43 regions in France on high alert for 'exceptional' weather conditions. On 11 February, the Six Nations Championship game between France and Ireland, was postponed shortly before kick-off, due to the pitch freezing, as temperatures plummeted beneath −10 °C (14 °F).

Piazza del Popolo, Rome under the snowfall

Italy – Rome experienced a rare intense snowfall, and many of Venice's canals have frozen over, the heavy snowfall occurred also in the Apennines.[11] On 6 February, the Italian rail network may face legal action, due to many passengers being stranded on trains over the weekend. Temperatures plummeted to −21 °C (−6 °F) on 7 February, in the north of the country. At least 54 people have died [12]
Georgia – On the 7 February Georgian press reported that the country was experiencing the coldest winter in nearly 50 years, with important water bodies, such as Mtkvari and Tbilisi sea freezing over.[13]

Tisza River near Szeged, Hungary

Greece – Many homeless people froze to death and a dam on the Evros river burst due to pressure. Temperatures also plummered to −25 °C (−13 °F) in the northwest city of Florina.
Latvia – The lowest temperature was recorded at the Strenči meteorological station, hitting −34.2 °C (−29.6 °F) on 5 February.[14] For several days not a single meteorological station reported a temperature above −20 °C (−4 °F). Because of the severe cold wave, some regions in Latvia experienced a shortage of power supply,[14] an increased number of domestic fires were reported.
Malta – The lowest temperature at grass level was measured at Zebbug. The temperature was that of −2.4 °C (27.7 °F). It was measured on Wednesday. 8 February.
Netherlands – A cold wave was registered in the Netherlands, with a low of −18.9 °C (−2.0 °F) in De Bilt, the lowest recorded since 1956,[15] and a national low of −22.8 °C (−9.0 °F) in Lelystad, the lowest temperature recorded all over the Netherlands since 1985.[16] A homeless man was frozen to death on February 2.[17] People have been ice-skating on the canals of Amsterdam.
Poland – Early in the day on 30 January, subzero cold spread widely over Belarus, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia and eastern Poland, data accessed by AccuWeather.com showed.[6] From the January 1st 2012, 103 people froze to death. Fire and Rescue Service reported 360 domestic fires during one night (Feb 11 - Feb 12), and almost 12000 fire accidents this year. Reports state 107 people died in flames with 550 more suffer various degrees of burns. Due to carbon monoxide poisoning 24 people died.[18]

Winter of 2012 in south of Bucharest, Romania

Romania – At least 86 people have died.[19] In some areas, the bitter cold followed heavy falls of snow, among them the late-week dump of 5 m (16 ft)[6] On the 11 February, the Danube was reportedly completely frozen over.

Winter in Volgograd Oblast, Russia

Russia – European Russia experienced widespread subzero cold.[6] The Ministry of Health and Social Development stated on 13 February that the cold had killed 215 people since 1 January.[20]
Serbia – Sjenica set −32 °C (−26 °F), early on the morning of 9 February. In Serbia at least 50,000 villagers have been trapped by heavy snow and blizzards in mountainous areas.[21] Gas supplies are running low.[22] On the 8 February, electricity consumption broke a record, standing at 162.67 million kWh, so the government mandated a shutdown of all non-essential industries and decorative lightning.[23] The death toll has risen to 20.[22]
Spain – Palma, Majorca registered the most important snow episode[clarification needed] since 1956.[24]

Catalonia – Heavy snowfall and winds of 175 km/h (109 mph) were reported in Portbou as temperatures dropped to −23 °C (−9 °F).

Turkey – On the 31 January, heavy snow blanketed Istanbul, covering the Blue Mosque. 102 flights were cancelled at Ataturk International Airport. Nearly 140,000 people made homeless by the 2011 Van earthquake, were reported as struggling to cope with temperatures of −4 °C (25 °F) and over 30 centimetres of snow.
Ukraine – More than 100 homeless people have died as temperatures dropped as low as −35 °C (−31 °F).[21] Gas supplies are running low.[11] The cold led to more than 600 people being treated for frostbite and hypothermia within three days, according to officials. Nearly 24,000 people sought shelter during the same three days, the BBC reported. In western Ukraine, Rivne and Ivano-Frankivsk dipped to −28 °C (−18 °F).[6] Ukrainian health officials stated (on February 16) 151 people had died because of the cold,[25] with alcohol regularly a contributing factor,[25] the highest number in Europe.[2]
United Kingdom – The Met Office issued a severe weather warning as heavy snow fell across much of the country on 4 February, disrupting roads and flights.[26] Temperatures fell to −11.8 °C (10.8 °F) in the early hours of February 8.[27] More heavy snow fell overnight in England on 9–10 February. On the night of 10–11 February, the temperature in England[specify] fell to −15.6 °C (3.9 °F), the coldest temperatures since Boxing Day in 2010.[28]

[edit] Africa
Winter in Algeria

Algeria – The north of the country awoke to a blanket of snow. The average temperature at this particular time of year being 9 °C (48 °F).
Libya – On the 6 February snow fell down in Tripoli which is a very rare even
Member Since: Enero 27, 2009 Posts: 21 Comments: 852
34. Some1Has2BtheRookie 5:00 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting iceagecoming:


"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

The "Reader's Digest" version of your post. ;-)
Member Since: Agosto 24, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 4105
35. Neapolitan 6:09 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Quoting iceagecoming:


Here are a few that agree with Paul Hudson;
I suppose they don't count either:

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical...The main basis of the claim that man’s release of greenhouse gases is the cause of the warming is based almost entirely upon climate models. We all know the frailty of models concerning the air-surface system.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology, and formerly of NASA, who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”



Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.



“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.



“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future warming.” - Scientist Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace member.



“Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.” - Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo. Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar interaction with the Earth.

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico
“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.


“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.


“The Kyoto theorists have put the cart before the horse. It is global warming that triggers higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way round…A large number of critical documents submitted at the 1995 U.N. conference in Madrid vanished without a trace. As a result, the discussion was one-sided and heavily biased, and the U.N. declared global warming to be a scientific fact,” Andrei Kapitsa, a Russian geographer and Antarctic ice core researcher.


“I am convinced that the current alarm over carbon dioxide is mistaken...Fears about man-made global warming are unwarranted and are not based on good science.” - Award Winning Physicist Dr. Will Happer, Professor at the Department of Physics at Princeton University and Former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy, who has published over 200 scientific papers, and is a fellow of the American Physical Society, The American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the National Academy of Sciences.



“Nature's regulatory instrument is water vapor: more carbon dioxide leads to less moisture in the air, keeping the overall GHG content in accord with the necessary balance conditions.” – Prominent Hungarian Physicist and environmental researcher Dr. Miklós Zágoni reversed his view of man-made warming and is now a skeptic. Zágoni was once Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol.


“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.


“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.



Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
Aldous Huxley




Armenia – Zvartnots and Shirak international airports are closed due to heavy snowfall.[4]
Azerbaijan – On 8 February, temperatures in Baku dropped to −14 °C (7 °F), breaking a 42-year-old record.[5] Baku international airport also suffered a serious problems and had to cancel some flights.
Belarus – Early in the day on 30 January, subzero temperatures spread rapidly, data accessed by AccuWeather showed.[6] According to meteoinfo.by, on the night of 11 through 12 February, temperatures in the Brahin Raion dropped to −34.3 °C (−29.7 °F). According to National Agency BielTA, from 1 January, more than 180 people died in domestic fires. Total number of casualties remain unknown.[7]
Bulgaria – Nearly 150 cm (4.9 ft) of snow has fallen, with one man dying of hypothermia as his car was covered in snow.[8] Meteoalarm issued snow warnings for western Bulgaria, wind warnings for central parts and rain warnings for eastern areas of the country.[9] Temperatures have been consistently under −10 °C (14 °F) for more than a week with a low reading of −30 °C (−22 °F) on two different occasions in Knezha. The wall of the Ivanovo dam in southern Haskovo Province broke, flooding the village of Biser and killing 11 people in addition to inflicting serious infrastructure damage. At least 16 other deaths have been reported throughout the country due to frostbite or exhaustion.
Croatia – As of 6 February, 3 people died,[10] with concerns of many villages being cut off, especially near Vrgorac.
Cyprus – On the 29 February, snow was reported as falling in the capital, Nicosia.
France – On the 6 February, BBC News reported 4 deaths, and 43 regions in France on high alert for 'exceptional' weather conditions. On 11 February, the Six Nations Championship game between France and Ireland, was postponed shortly before kick-off, due to the pitch freezing, as temperatures plummeted beneath −10 °C (14 °F).

Piazza del Popolo, Rome under the snowfall

Italy – Rome experienced a rare intense snowfall, and many of Venice's canals have frozen over, the heavy snowfall occurred also in the Apennines.[11] On 6 February, the Italian rail network may face legal action, due to many passengers being stranded on trains over the weekend. Temperatures plummeted to −21 °C (−6 °F) on 7 February, in the north of the country. At least 54 people have died [12]
Georgia – On the 7 February Georgian press reported that the country was experiencing the coldest winter in nearly 50 years, with important water bodies, such as Mtkvari and Tbilisi sea freezing over.[13]

Tisza River near Szeged, Hungary

Greece – Many homeless people froze to death and a dam on the Evros river burst due to pressure. Temperatures also plummered to −25 °C (−13 °F) in the northwest city of Florina.
Latvia – The lowest temperature was recorded at the Strenči meteorological station, hitting −34.2 °C (−29.6 °F) on 5 February.[14] For several days not a single meteorological station reported a temperature above −20 °C (−4 °F). Because of the severe cold wave, some regions in Latvia experienced a shortage of power supply,[14] an increased number of domestic fires were reported.
Malta – The lowest temperature at grass level was measured at Zebbug. The temperature was that of −2.4 °C (27.7 °F). It was measured on Wednesday. 8 February.
Netherlands – A cold wave was registered in the Netherlands, with a low of −18.9 °C (−2.0 °F) in De Bilt, the lowest recorded since 1956,[15] and a national low of −22.8 °C (−9.0 °F) in Lelystad, the lowest temperature recorded all over the Netherlands since 1985.[16] A homeless man was frozen to death on February 2.[17] People have been ice-skating on the canals of Amsterdam.
Poland – Early in the day on 30 January, subzero cold spread widely over Belarus, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia and eastern Poland, data accessed by AccuWeather.com showed.[6] From the January 1st 2012, 103 people froze to death. Fire and Rescue Service reported 360 domestic fires during one night (Feb 11 - Feb 12), and almost 12000 fire accidents this year. Reports state 107 people died in flames with 550 more suffer various degrees of burns. Due to carbon monoxide poisoning 24 people died.[18]

Winter of 2012 in south of Bucharest, Romania

Romania – At least 86 people have died.[19] In some areas, the bitter cold followed heavy falls of snow, among them the late-week dump of 5 m (16 ft)[6] On the 11 February, the Danube was reportedly completely frozen over.

Winter in Volgograd Oblast, Russia

Russia – European Russia experienced widespread subzero cold.[6] The Ministry of Health and Social Development stated on 13 February that the cold had killed 215 people since 1 January.[20]
Serbia – Sjenica set −32 °C (−26 °F), early on the morning of 9 February. In Serbia at least 50,000 villagers have been trapped by heavy snow and blizzards in mountainous areas.[21] Gas supplies are running low.[22] On the 8 February, electricity consumption broke a record, standing at 162.67 million kWh, so the government mandated a shutdown of all non-essential industries and decorative lightning.[23] The death toll has risen to 20.[22]
Spain – Palma, Majorca registered the most important snow episode[clarification needed] since 1956.[24]

Catalonia – Heavy snowfall and winds of 175 km/h (109 mph) were reported in Portbou as temperatures dropped to −23 °C (−9 °F).

Turkey – On the 31 January, heavy snow blanketed Istanbul, covering the Blue Mosque. 102 flights were cancelled at Ataturk International Airport. Nearly 140,000 people made homeless by the 2011 Van earthquake, were reported as struggling to cope with temperatures of −4 °C (25 °F) and over 30 centimetres of snow.
Ukraine – More than 100 homeless people have died as temperatures dropped as low as −35 °C (−31 °F).[21] Gas supplies are running low.[11] The cold led to more than 600 people being treated for frostbite and hypothermia within three days, according to officials. Nearly 24,000 people sought shelter during the same three days, the BBC reported. In western Ukraine, Rivne and Ivano-Frankivsk dipped to −28 °C (−18 °F).[6] Ukrainian health officials stated (on February 16) 151 people had died because of the cold,[25] with alcohol regularly a contributing factor,[25] the highest number in Europe.[2]
United Kingdom – The Met Office issued a severe weather warning as heavy snow fell across much of the country on 4 February, disrupting roads and flights.[26] Temperatures fell to −11.8 °C (10.8 °F) in the early hours of February 8.[27] More heavy snow fell overnight in England on 9–10 February. On the night of 10–11 February, the temperature in England[specify] fell to −15.6 °C (3.9 °F), the coldest temperatures since Boxing Day in 2010.[28]

[edit] Africa
Winter in Algeria

Algeria – The north of the country awoke to a blanket of snow. The average temperature at this particular time of year being 9 °C (48 °F).
Libya – On the 6 February snow fell down in Tripoli which is a very rare even
So let's take an inventory:

--82-year-old non-practicining physicist (Ivar Giaever)

--86-year-old (now deceased) Atmospheric scientist (Dr. Joanne Simpson)

--Chemist, with no papers published in the field of climate science(Dr. Kiminori Itoh)

--Geologist (Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia)

--Chemical engineer (Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck)

--Physicist (Dr. Pal Brekke)

--Physicist who predicted the world would be in an ice age by now (Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera)

--Atmospheric scientist (Stanley B. Goldenberg)

--Statistician and Heartland Institute speaker (Dr. William M. Briggs)

--80-year-old non-practicing geographer (Andrei Kapitsa)

--Physicist and arch-conservative (Dr. Will Happer)

--Physicist and Heartland Institute speaker (Dr. Miklós Zágoni)

--Geologist (Dr. David Gee)

--Meteorologist (Hajo Smit)

Now, since we're counting on experts, you've listed exactly two climate scientists. Of those, one has been dead for a couple of years, and at any rate hadn't practiced nor published in decades. So that leaves one: Stanley b. Goldenberg. Goldenberg is also a Heartland Institute speaker.

Thus, the lengthy list of "experts" you provided includes exactly one "credible" person, a denialist-trained, fossil fuel-funded meteorologist.

Color me shocked. ;-)

--You've followed with, again, more snippets from the Europe/West Asia cold snap of winter 2012. That's fine, I suppose, but did you know that during any one day of this month's North American heat wave that more high records were broken than cold records over the duration of that cold snap? And did you also know that Europe had a very warm winter overall?
Member Since: Noviembre 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11175
36. Patrap 6:25 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
..the Global's cooling's should begin any day now.
Member Since: Julio 3, 2005 Posts: 372 Comments: 111641
37. cyclonebuster 7:15 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
Recovery...........LOL!
Member Since: Enero 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18788
38. Neapolitan 7:56 PM GMT en Marzo 26, 2012    
From Scientific American this afternoon, this bit of happy news:

Global Warming Close to Becoming Irreversible

"The world is close to reaching tipping points that will make it irreversibly hotter, making this decade critical in efforts to contain global warming, scientists warned on Monday.

Scientific estimates differ but the world's temperature looks set to rise by six degrees Celsius by 2100 if greenhouse gas emissions are allowed to rise uncontrollably.

As emissions grow, scientists say the world is close to reaching thresholds beyond which the effects on the global climate will be irreversible, such as the melting of polar ice sheets and loss of rainforests.

"This is the critical decade. If we don't get the curves turned around this decade we will cross those lines," said Will Steffen, executive director of the Australian National University's climate change institute, speaking at a conference in London.

Despite this sense of urgency, a new global climate treaty forcing the world's biggest polluters, such as the United States and China, to curb emissions will only be agreed on by 2015 - to enter into force in 2020.

"We are on the cusp of some big changes," said Steffen. "We can ... cap temperature rise at two degrees, or cross the threshold beyond which the system shifts to a much hotter state."

TIPPING POINTS

For ice sheets - huge refrigerators that slow down the warming of the planet - the tipping point has probably already been passed, Steffen said. The West Antarctic ice sheet has shrunk over the last decade and the Greenland ice sheet has lost around 200 cubic km (48 cubic miles) a year since the 1990s.

Most climate estimates agree the Amazon rainforest will get drier as the planet warms. Mass tree deaths caused by drought have raised fears it is on the verge of a tipping point, when it will stop absorbing emissions and add to them instead.

Around 1.6 billion tonnes of carbon were lost in 2005 from the rainforest and 2.2 billion tonnes in 2010, which has undone about 10 years of carbon sink activity, Steffen said.

One of the most worrying and unknown thresholds is the Siberian permafrost, which stores frozen carbon in the soil away from the atmosphere.

"There is about 1,600 billion tonnes of carbon there - about twice the amount in the atmosphere today - and the northern high latitudes are experiencing the most severe temperature change of any part of the planet," he said.

In a worst case scenario, 30 to 63 billion tonnes of carbon a year could be released by 2040, rising to 232 to 380 billion tonnes by 2100. This compares to around 10 billion tonnes of CO2 released by fossil fuel use each year.

Increased CO2 in the atmosphere has also turned oceans more acidic as they absorb it. In the past 200 years, ocean acidification has happened at a speed not seen for around 60 million years, said Carol Turley at Plymouth Marine Laboratory.

This threatens coral reef development and could lead to the extinction of some species within decades, as well as to an increase in the number of predators.

As leading scientists, policy-makers and environment groups gathered at the "Planet Under Pressure" conference in London, opinions differed on what action to take this decade.

London School of Economics professor Anthony Giddens favors focusing on the fossil fuel industry, seeing as renewables only make up 1 percent of the global energy mix.

"We have enormous inertia within the world economy and should make much more effort to close down coal-fired power stations," he said.

Oil giant Royal Dutch Shell favours working on technologies leading to negative emissions in the long run, like carbon capture on biomass and in land use, said Jeremy Bentham, the firm's vice president of global business environment.

The conference runs through Thursday."
Member Since: Noviembre 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11175
39. RevElvis 3:54 AM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Extreme Weather of Last Decade Part of Larger Pattern Linked to Global Warming.

ScienceDaily.com Link

I don't brake for trolls !
Member Since: Septiembre 18, 2005 Posts: 20 Comments: 413
40. percylives 11:23 AM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
A bit of enlightened reading.

The answer to this particular problem? Maybe.
Member Since: Agosto 23, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 69
41. percylives 11:31 AM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Quoting Birthmark:
It will be interesting to see what happens with the next strong El Niño and temperature.


The next strong El Nino may only be "interesting" from a distance. Living it may not be as pleasant.

Make sure your AC is fully charged and your stand-by generator is fueled up before it arrives.
Member Since: Agosto 23, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 69
42. percylives 11:42 AM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Quoting Balwanz:
Here, in Richmond VA, not long ago we experienced 5 degree winter lows. Now our winter lows are slightly above 15. This places us in a climate zone of Georgia and Northern Florida.

Pine bark beetles are devastating out local Virginia black pines, which seem likely to be replaced by more Southern, beetle-resistant loblollies. This new climate zone however, in Georgia and Florida, features palms rather than pines. Particularly apparent are vast areas of low-growing screw palms.

Could this be actually happening?


Yes, it's happening and it is time to start thinking seriously about rolling with this particular condition.

I have planted about 70 fig trees here in central VA and am considering year-around citrus. If I lived in your neighborhood, I'd already be looking at orange trees in my yard.

Who will grow the first avocado in the new Virginia?
Member Since: Agosto 23, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 69
43. overwash12 1:53 PM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Quoting percylives:


Yes, it's happening and it is time to start thinking seriously about rolling with this particular condition.

I have planted about 70 fig trees here in central VA and am considering year-around citrus. If I lived in your neighborhood, I'd already be looking at orange trees in my yard.

Who will grow the first avocado in the new Virginia?
I say you would be throwing money into the wind! I know a guy down the road from me planted about 40 palm trees along his long country driveway a few years back. Guess they were not of the cold hardy variety,he lost a few last year when the temp got to about 13 degrees f. I live in Northeast,N.C.
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44. Some1Has2BtheRookie 2:09 PM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
I say you would be throwing money into the wind! I know a guy down the road from me planted about 40 palm trees along his long country driveway a few years back. Guess they were not of the cold hardy variety,he lost a few last year when the temp got to about 13 degrees f. I live in Northeast,N.C.


A man slightly ahead of his time?
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45. Patrap 2:56 PM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
BREAKING: Obama Administration To Establish Strong Carbon Pollution Limits For New Power Plants
By Brad Johnson on Mar 26, 2012 at 10:14 pm


In one of the most significant reversals of Bush-era policy, the Obama administration plans tomorrow to issue greenhouse pollution limits for new power plants, a major step in the fight against global warming. The new rule — which will go into effect in 2013 — confirms the end of the era of dirty coal-fired power plants:
The proposed rule — years in the making and approved by the White House after months of review — will require any new power plant to emit no more than 1,000 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt of electricity produced. The average U.S. natural gas plant, which emits between 800 and 850 pounds of CO2 per megawatt, meets that standard; coal plants emit an average of 1,768 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt.
Since the late 1990s, “natural gas has been the fuel of choice for the majority of new generating units,” and in the 2000s, wind power generation also grew significantly. With the high cost of its toxic pollution from mine to plant, coal has been losing out to cleaner sources of fuel in the electric utility sector. Although few new coal plants have been built in the last twenty years, aging plants — some built in the 1930s — still produce about 40 percent of U.S. electricity, and about 80 percent of carbon pollution from the power sector.
In March 2001, newly elected President George W. Bush reversed a campaign pledge to limit greenhouse pollution from power plants, the source of 40 percent of United States global warming pollution. In 2008, Bush White House officials refused to open an email sent by its own Environmental Protection Agency which called for action against man-made climate change.
“This is the third major executive action launched by the Obama administration to reduce carbon pollution,” writes Center for American Progress senior fellow Daniel Weiss. “With growing evidence that the serious impacts of climate change are already here, President Obama deserves credit for this new standard. We must urgently adopt and implement these new pollution reduction standards for power plants.”
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46. iceagecoming 4:19 PM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
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47. iceagecoming 4:24 PM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Big failures, small successes mark Obama's environmental record

As presidential candidate Barack Obama ran on a bold green agenda. He vowed to reverse the climate change policy of his predecessor and push for green jobs. But one year before the election the results are mixed at best.
Barack Obama in Copenhagen

The Copenhagen conference scuppered Obama's plans

"Few challenges facing America - and the world - are more urgent than combating climate change," President-elect Obama declared in California two weeks after the 2008 vote. And he promised: "My presidency will mark a new chapter in America's leadership on climate change that will strengthen our security and create millions of new jobs."

And there was no shortage of events and incidents to help galvanize support for this ambitious environmental platform.

In his first year in office, with a Democrat-controlled Congress and just two months after being honored with the Nobel Peace Price, President Obama, armed with the latest research outlining the dire consequences of climate change, attended what was arguably the most high stakes environmental policy drama ever staged: the Copenhagen Climate Conference.

Copenhagen collapse

The result was the biggest reality check for anyone who believed Barack Obama could indeed restore American leadership on climate issues. The Copenhagen conference couldn't agree on a comprehensive global climate regime and is widely regarded as the final nail in the coffin of serious international climate legislation. That was in December 2009.

Four months later and much closer to home, the biggest oil spill in history wreaked havoc on the marine environment in the Gulf of Mexico. But after a government-mandated moratorium on drilling that ended a year ago, it has been basically back to business as usual for the petroleum industry in the Gulf and elsewhere.

In year three of the Obama administration, the biggest nuclear accident since the Chernobyl catastrophe of 1986 shocked Japan and the world. The string of nuclear meltdowns in Fukushima caused a global debate about the safety of nuclear energy and led to Japan ditching plans to step up its use of nuclear power and Germany to phase out nuclear power entirely.

Smoke rises from Fukushima plant

The Fukushima accident didn't alter US nuclear policy

Meanwhile in the US, utility giant Southern Company is on track to get permission to build two new nuclear reactors at its plant in Georgia. According to media reports, the company had already received the green light for limited construction in August and hopes to get final permission at the end of the year.

End of a green presidency

So why with a Democratic majority during his first year in office and two cataclysmic environmental disasters has Obama not delivered on his promise to become the first green president?

Two reasons, say experts.

First, because of a general resistance to comprehensive climate legislation in Congress that cuts across party lines which made it hard for Obama to even convince all his fellow Democrats. Second, because Obama simply had other priorities like health care and financial reform.

"He just didn't put enough of his political capital behind it," Sascha Müller-Kraenner, European representative of The Nature Conservancy, a major international environmental organization based in Arlington, Virginia, told Deutsche Welle.

After Obama's signature green bill foundered in Congress, the president wasn't itching for more eco fights that he felt he was unlikely to win.

"A lot of mainstream politicians including I must say the president seem to have drawn the conclusion from the failed climate legislation that there is nothing to gain by promoting environmental causes in the US," notes Müller-Kraenner.

Lacking leadership

That might help explain the lackluster reaction of the White House after the Fukushima accident in Japan and the Deepwater Horizon disaster in the Gulf.

A president who campaigned to win back America's lost position as the globe's environmental leader could have seized these moments. He could have promoted bold measures in the wake of these disasters to prevent similar accidents in the US in the future and usher in a greener US energy policy.

Instead, even after Fukushima Obama continues to support nuclear energy.

As for the Deepwater Horizon spill, in the eyes of many experts the Obama administration botched its response to the largest environmental disaster in US history, leaving the crisis management and communication essentially up to BP executives.

Deepwater Horizon platform on fire

The Obama administration bungled its response to the biggest oil spill in history

The president was eventually forced to apologize for the government's bungled actions and later issued a limited drilling moratorium which was quickly overturned in court.

Alexander Ochs, director of the climate and energy program at the Worldwatch Institute in Washington, isn't all that surprised about Obama's reactions to the Fukushima and Deepwater Horizon accidents. He notes that Obama upon becoming president considered nuclear energy a clean technology and it doesn't seem Fukushima changed his stance.

Energy security vs. environment

What's more, says Ochs, energy security for most key players in the US simply trumps environmental protection. By continuing or even expanding domestic drilling for oil, those players hope to decrease US dependency on imported oil, which in the long run is impossible because of decreasing reserves.

And yet, despite many shortcomings, it wouldn't be fair to label Obama as an abject failure on the environment. While it wasn't hard to beat the environmental record set by his predecessor, Obama does deserve credit for some important green initiatives, argue the experts.

As part of the 2009 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the Obama administration has made available investments in renewable energy projects totaling $90 billion (65 billion euros), explains Ochs. He adds that the so-called Cafe standard, i.e. the fuel standard for cars and light trucks, has been raised substantially. And the way in which federal agencies analyze environmental impact of green house gas emissions has also been improved.

While these efforts sound mundane compared to a sweeping international climate mandate they are important and do produce clear environmental change, says Ochs.

Framing the debate

Still, looking ahead at the presidential election campaign the analysts worry that the environment could once again only surface as a drag on an already sluggish economy.

"So far energy is again being viewed from a very conservative lens and the environmental perspective is still missing, also from Mr. Obama's platform," says Müller-Kraenner.

"Environmental protection could indeed play a role in the election to the extent that it can be cast by Republicans as a job killer," says Ochs. "If Republicans are successful in framing it this way it can become quite a liability for Obama and Congress Democrats."

President-elect Obama's promise in California to restore America’s leadership position in climate change these days sounds like it comes from a different era. And yet it is only three years old.

Author: Michael Knigge

Editor: Rob Mudge


Link



Liberty is a boisterous sea. Timid men prefer the calm of despotism." -Thomas Jefferson
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49. Birthmark 5:20 PM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
We know the Earth was much warmer at one time(at least some of us) . WE know the Earth was much colder at one time. This all happened how? Are we not subject to the same set of physics and astronomical cycles as in the past?

Ah, I see. You think that climatologists think that CO2 is the *only* thing that affects climate. Happily, I can report to you that that is not the case.
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50. percylives 5:24 PM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Quoting overwash12:
I say you would be throwing money into the wind! I know a guy down the road from me planted about 40 palm trees along his long country driveway a few years back. Guess they were not of the cold hardy variety,he lost a few last year when the temp got to about 13 degrees f. I live in Northeast,N.C.


I don't know about the palms but unless we get a real cold snap, I'm going to get a lot of figs this year. The bushes are already leafing out and many have the early fig batch on them.
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51. Birthmark 5:24 PM GMT en Marzo 27, 2012    
Quoting iceagecoming:


Here are a few that agree with Paul Hudson;
I suppose they don't count either:

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical...The main basis of the claim that man’s release of greenhouse gases is the cause of the warming is based almost entirely upon climate models. We all know the frailty of models concerning the air-surface system.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology, and formerly of NASA, who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”



Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.



“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.



“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future warming.” - Scientist Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace member.



“Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.” - Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo. Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar interaction with the Earth.

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico
“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.


“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.


“The Kyoto theorists have put the cart before the horse. It is global warming that triggers higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way round…A large number of critical documents submitted at the 1995 U.N. conference in Madrid vanished without a trace. As a result, the discussion was one-sided and heavily biased, and the U.N. declared global warming to be a scientific fact,” Andrei Kapitsa, a Russian geographer and Antarctic ice core researcher.


“I am convinced that the current alarm over carbon dioxide is mistaken...Fears about man-made global warming are unwarranted and are not based on good science.” - Award Winning Physicist Dr. Will Happer, Professor at the Department of Physics at Princeton University and Former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy, who has published over 200 scientific papers, and is a fellow of the American Physical Society, The American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the National Academy of Sciences.



“Nature's regulatory instrument is water vapor: more carbon dioxide leads to less moisture in the air, keeping the overall GHG content in accord with the necessary balance conditions.” – Prominent Hungarian Physicist and environmental researcher Dr. Miklós Zágoni reversed his view of man-made warming and is now a skeptic. Zágoni was once Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol.


“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.


“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.

Thank for posting this rather long list of people who are wrong. It was most entertaining to see the number of ways that presumably intelligent people can be wrong.

As for your "facts", I'll say this. A mediocre man once said, "Irrelevant facts are...well, irrelevant." That mediocre man was me. (I said a lot of other stuff, too. But we'll get to that later.) :)
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About RickyRood
I'm a professor at U Michigan and lead a course on climate change problem solving. These articles include ideas from the course. And no tuition!

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