Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Gulf of Mexico disturbance 96L poorly organized, but may develop
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 2:27 PM GMT en Junio 22, 2012 +33
An area of low pressure and heavy thunderstorms in the Southern Gulf of Mexico (designated 96L by NHC Thursday afternoon) is a threat to become a tropical depression this weekend, and all interests along the Gulf of Mexico coast should pay attention to the progress of this disturbance. The disturbance is bringing occasional heavy rains to Western Cuba, South Florida, and Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. Top winds measured in the surrounding ocean areas this morning were 27 mph, gusting to 34 mph, at the Yucatan Basin buoy between Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula and the Cayman Islands. Our wundermap for the surrounding ocean areas show a ship that measured sustained winds of 30 mph near the western tip of Cuba this morning. Satellite-based surface wind measurements from the newly-available Oceansat-2 scatterometer, courtesy of India, show no signs of a surface circulation. Visible satellite loops show that 96L is less organized than it was Thursday evening, with only a little low-level spin apparent, and a modest area of disorganized thunderstorms. The decrease in organization is probably due to the moderate to high levels of wind shear of 15 - 25 knots over the region. Water vapor satellite loops show a modest region of dry air over the Central Gulf of Mexico, which is interfering with development. Ocean temperatures are 81 - 83°F in the Western Caribbean and Southern Gulf of Mexico, which is about 1°F above average, and warm enough to support formation of a tropical storm. A hurricane hunter mission is scheduled to investigate 96L this afternoon, but this mission will probably be cancelled due to the disturbance's lack of organization.


Figure 1. Morning satellite image of the tropical disturbance 96L in the Southern Gulf of Mexico.

Forecast for 96L
Wind shear is predicted to remain in the moderate range through Saturday night, which is likely low enough to allow 96L to develop into a tropical depression; NHC gave 96L a 70% chance of developing into a tropical depression by Sunday morning, in their 8am EDT Tropical Weather Outlook. By Sunday, wind shear is predicted to increase, limiting 96L's potential for intensification. Where the storm might go is anybody's guess. The GFS model has consistently been predicting that a trough of low pressure pushing off of the U.S. East Coast will be capable of grabbing the disturbance and accelerating it to the northeast across Florida north of Tampa Bay on Sunday or Monday. However, an ensemble of forecasts from the model created by running the model with slight perturbations to the initial conditions shows a wide range of possible tracks, both to the east over Florida, and to the west towards Texas and Louisiana (Figure 2.) The latest ECMWF model run (00 UTC) predicts that the trough will not be strong enough to pull 96L northeastwards across Florida. The ECMWF predicts that a ridge of high pressure will build in over the Southern U.S., forcing the disturbance westwards across the Gulf of Mexico and into South Texas by Thursday. The UKMET model also favors a track west towards Texas. The NOGAPS model takes 96L to the northwest into Louisiana/Texas by Monday.


Figure 2. Which way will 96L go? The GFS model, when run at low resolution with 20 slightly different perturbations to the initial conditions in order to generate an ensemble of different forecasts, shows two distinct possibilities: a sharp east turn to move over Florida, or a west or northwest motion towards Louisiana or Texas. The high-resolution official GFS forecast is shown in white.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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2102. GeorgiaStormz 1:38 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Whoa! That convection came out of nowhere!


this image doesnt show it, neither does water vapor

little over 15mins ago:
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2103. gulfbreeze 1:38 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
If 96 becomes a stong storm or a Hurricane this will make a difference with the models forcast.
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2104. FSUCOOPman 1:38 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Whoa! That convection came out of nowhere!


And looks to be on the rise!

I don't know much about the steering layers.

Levi, do you think it matters much that the center is (may be\looks to be) consolidating a little further east than where the models were initiated, on the ultimate track?
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2105. weatherh98 1:39 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting gator23:

Well I can. He has been proven right I said that and I said kudos to him earlier.


I'm just messing with you
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2106. MississippiWx 1:39 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
That's just the transition of day and night on shortwave. It isn't that impressive on AVN.


AVN is just a buzz-kill. Lol. It always brings you down to earth.
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2107. Chicklit 1:39 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
I'm rooting for either a Tampa or Aransas (TX) National Wildlife Refuge landfall.
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2108. RTSplayer 1:39 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Whoa! That convection came out of nowhere!


Shortwave is very sensitive to changes from dusk to dark, so don't be too alarmed at the dark blue.

But the inner bluish-white does very well jive with the radar loops if you overlay them.
Member Since: Enero 25, 2012 Posts: 27 Comments: 875
2109. Abacosurf 1:39 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting Chicklit:
Link check out the short wave loop. Dare I suggest she is finally coming into her own?
Speaking of shortwave loops I just caught a few waves at the Naples pier before dark. Fun on the long board.
Member Since: Agosto 28, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 911
2110. fmhurricane2009 1:40 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
I love rain, I especially love sleeping to the sound of the rain (Who doesn't?) That convection = rain. People like me in SWFL are going to have a very rainy weekend.
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2112. Chicklit 1:40 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Shortwave is good at showing lower level circulation imo.
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2113. TropicalAnalystwx13 1:40 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Oh, lol.
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2114. Skyepony (Mod) 1:41 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Storm total rainfall amounts.
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2115. MiamiHurricanes09 1:41 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting masonsnana:
So sorry Miami, your right and I am sorry.. hope you all know where that was directed
You don't have to apologize, simple mistake.

You've been a member since 2004? Now that's impressive.
Member Since: Septiembre 2, 2009 Posts: 129 Comments: 19976
2116. TallyMike 1:41 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting FSUCOOPman:


That's what worries me...rainfall-wise.

soak the ground, soak it some more, and even just 30 mph wind gusts start wreaking havoc on trees and above ground power lines.

don't know about most other people, but here in Tallahassee, nearly every neighborhood has above ground power lines that are woven through the trees that line our canopy roads.

The only place in town I can think of that's beneath the ground is Southwood.


Most of Killearn is underground wired. But very tall mature oaks and pines often wreak havoc on property in strong T storms
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2117. MAweatherboy1 1:41 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Very easy to see the center here.

Good night everyone, I think 80 or 90% at 2AM TWO with a renumber late morning/early afternoon tomorrow.
Member Since: Febrero 11, 2012 Posts: 67 Comments: 6366
2118. midgulfmom 1:41 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
evening all sorry not been on had a daylight shooting in the hood here 24 year old dead from 2 shots to the chest interesting evening here cops everywhere happen just before six
whoa...so sorry. Where are you? City-wise that is.....
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2119. Chicklit 1:42 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting Abacosurf:
Speaking of shortwave loops I just caught a few waves at the Naples pier before dark. Fun on the long board.


good for you!
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2120. masonsnana 1:43 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
You don't have to apologize, simply mistake.

You've been a member since 2004? Now that's impressive.
And still learning :) TY for being so kind.
Member Since: Febrero 14, 2004 Posts: 2 Comments: 513
2121. luvtogolf 1:45 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting gator23:

It wasnt that you were just pointing out models progs. You kept pointing out the ones that support your theory. And never the ones that didnt. Regardless I am entitled to my opinion.


It's funny that I mentioned those models when they had an eastward bias and was told they were unreliable.
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2122. Tropicsweatherpr 1:45 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting MAweatherboy1:
Very easy to see the center here.

Good night everyone, I think 80 or 90% at 2AM TWO with a renumber late morning/early afternoon tomorrow.


Unless the system get it's act together before recon goes,they may wait for the plane data in the afternoon to make the next move.
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2123. Chicklit 1:45 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting MAweatherboy1:
Very easy to see the center here.

Good night everyone, I think 80 or 90% at 2AM TWO with a renumber late morning/early afternoon tomorrow.


that's what showed up on shortwave too; it's at 80% as of 8 p.m. tonight
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2124. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 1:45 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting midgulfmom:
whoa...so sorry. Where are you? City-wise that is.....
in toronto in scarbrough it was right across the street i heard pop pop pop a pause then pop pop seen a couple police running then like something out of the movies cops everywhere even had a copper hoving right over the building wild too close to home
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2125. Mucinex 1:46 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting TallyMike:

Most of Killearn is underground wired. But very tall mature oaks and pines often wreak havoc on property in strong T storms

City of Tally allowed that area to be overbuilt in the last 10 years without upgrading the power grid heading out that way.
Somebody farts on the I-10 overpass and the power goes out.
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2126. GTcooliebai 1:47 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
A blogger on here once told me to use this image to get a better depiction of the cloud top temperatures and intensity of the thunderstorms:

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2127. FSUCOOPman 1:47 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting Tropicsweatherpr:


Unless the system get it's act together before recon goes,they may wait for the plane data in the afternoon to make the next move.


agree, it's not going anywhere fast, so no need to rush anything unless it becomes blatantly obvious it needs an upgrade. Anything borderline, and they should wait, IMO.
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2128. floridaT 1:47 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting bayoubug:
for whatFor what it's worth i vote for LA.
bayou that flame in your pic im guessing is a tribute to the miami heat in the summertime?
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2130. WhereIsTheStorm 1:48 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
in toronto in scarbrough it was right across the street i heard pop pop pop a pause then pop pop seen a couple police running then like something out of the movies cops everywhere even had a copper hoving right over the building wild too close to home


This is never good. Glad you are safe.
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2131. TropicalAnalystwx13 1:48 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting GTcooliebai:
A blogger on here once told me to use this image to get a better depiction of the cloud top temperatures and intensity of the thunderstorms:


*points at RTSPlayer*
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2132. Seflhurricane 1:49 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Strong Line of Thunderstorms About to hit the SW Florida Coast near naples looks like a rough night for Southern Florida
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2133. GTcooliebai 1:50 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

*points at RTSPlayer*
Actually it was P451 unless it's the same person with just a different handle.
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2134. Barefootontherocks 1:50 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting PackManWx:
Sorry to be redundant, but the speed of the posts makes some questions get lost.


My question is:

The reason the GFS model keeps the storm moving east is because of a trough which will scoop it up and move it that direction...I assume

So, when is this trough supposed to pass?

Once the trough passes, shouldn't we know the direction of the storm? The storm was either picked up in the trough and heads east, or was missed by the trough and heads west... is this correct?

I'm kind of chuckling because took me the 2005 through 2007 seasons to really grasp the concept of how a trough could steer a storm.

First, there must be a storm consolidated around co-operating centers. Meaning the centers of circulations are on top of each other in the atmosphere, the essential one being at the surface. This has not happened yet. When it does, the storm can build upward. The center location and the intensity the storm builds will affect how it accepts steering from ridges and troughs in the neighborhood. Northern hemisphere tropical cyclones naturally want to move NW unless blocked by a ridge, or pulled elsewhere by a trough as Chris so dramatically was a few days ago. Depending on the strength and location of both, a storm can "miss a trough," and have to wait for another.

My answer to the question you asked is no one knows right now, and one can only guess by looking at the models, and later on by watching sats, especially water vapor loops to see the trough movement. Current weather maps issued by NWS and some learning institutions can be helpful in seeing the actual troughs and ridges on paper, so to speak. The models are fallible, as the true movements of the atmosphere can be slower or faster than the models predict them to be - until the actual atmospheric movement is close at hand.

The ridge building here where I live in the "middle" (as an East Coast Friend affectionately calls my area) seems like it'll be a strong one and will be centered this weekend over my state, Oklahoma. Local NWS mets do not expect the ridge to move much under the influence of low pressure on Monday and do not expect anything but hot, hot hot through at least next week Friday. The presence and strength of this ridge will come into play in the overall steering. Once there is a storm.
:)

Perhaps that's more information and more simple than what you wanted or needed, but maybe it will be helpful to someone else, if not to you.
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2135. bayoubug 1:51 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting floridaT:
bayou that flame in your pic im guessing is a tribute to the miami heat in the summertime?
Well not really...It's the heat hear in destrehan,La. We burn a christmas tree every new years....For good luck for the new year...
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2136. 954FtLCane 1:51 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
COC, 86.5, 23 sound about right?
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2137. HurricaneHunterJoe 1:51 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting jeebsa:


Southwest Florida gonna get hammered again. From just Radar observations,it looked like Naples got rain most the day,heavy at times. This new band looks very impressive and if the Thunderstorms don't wane on their way to the coast,a lot more is enroute. Any Naples residents in here? How much rain have ya got?
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2139. midgulfmom 1:52 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
in toronto in scarbrough it was right across the street i heard pop pop pop a pause then pop pop seen a couple police running then like something out of the movies cops everywhere even had a copper hoving right over the building wild too close to home
That's unreal.....sorry to say familiar scene in parts of NOLA. Hope you stay safe.
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2140. Seflhurricane 1:53 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting HurricaneHunterJoe:


Southwest Florida gonna get hammered again. From just Radar observations,it looked like Naples got rain most the day,heavy at times. This new band looks very impressive and if the Thunderstorms don't wane on their way to the coast,a lot more is enroute. Any Naples residents in here? How much rain have ya got?
Region Wide has received between 2-4 inches naples area has received in some observation points 2 inches
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2142. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 1:55 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting WhereIsTheStorm:


This is never good. Glad you are safe.
just finish my shift was going to fire up the BBQ cable guy look at me in the parking lot and said was that gun shots i said jokly maybe its friday anything is possible

the guy that died was only 25

i scubbed the BBQ just sitting here watching the police investigation taking it in

why are these young men settling there beefs with guns is beyond me

has to be a better way sad
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2143. floridaT 1:55 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting kipperedherring:
that's messed up man!
its ok people in ok dont care about cains
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2144. cybergrump 1:55 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting 954FtLCane:
COC, 86.5, 23 sound about right?


Thats what I see also.
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2145. Bitmap7 1:56 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Divergence is good but it needs way more convergence, to get those thunderstorms firing again.
]
Shear is falling ahead of it so once it gets some good convergence going the ball should start rolling again.

The latest ASCAT hints at some decent surface winds flowing in, so convergence shouldn't take long to start up again.

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2146. floridaT 1:57 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
i do think next years L storm should be labron
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2147. RTSplayer 1:58 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting GTcooliebai:
Actually it was P451 unless it's the same person with just a different handle.


I'm not the same person, but this is mostly common knowledge.
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2148. HurricaneHunterJoe 1:58 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting bohonkweatherman:
Florida sure is getting alot of rain even it this Storm doesnt move their way they will be very Wet. Texas will be very Hot. Those are the only 2 things we know at this time. They are saying if this storm doesnt come towards Texas then 100's may hang around for quite some time in the Western 2/3's of the State, Not Cool after Last Summer. What can you do but survive and pray your A.C. doesnt go out. :)


If it goes to Tejas,they better not screw it up like they did to The Don. Did they even get 1/2 inch of rain?
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2149. GeorgiaStormz 1:58 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Let us discuss 96L in tropics chat for a more exciting discussion:
Tropics Chat
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2150. 954FtLCane 1:59 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting cybergrump:


Thats what I see also.

Cool. Do I get a 2nd on the COC/LLC being at 86.5/23.

If so I would think models would initialize a little further east.
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2151. BrickellBreeze 2:00 AM GMT en Junio 23, 2012    
Quoting Seflhurricane:
Region Wide has received between 2-4 inches naples area has received in some observation points 2 inches


What Direction is that band heading? Will it make it to the otherside of the state and cause some "Thunder" for Miami?
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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