Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Disturbance 90L close to tropical depression strength; TD 2 may rise again
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 2:02 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009 +4
A strong tropical wave (90L), with a large circulation and a moderate amount of heavy thunderstorm activity, is a few hundred miles southwest of the Cape Verdes Islands, off the coast of Africa. This morning's QuikSCAT pass shows that 90L has a large circulation, but this circulation is not yet well-formed, as it is elongated along an east-west axis. Satellite imagery from the European METEOSAT satellite show that the heavy thunderstorms associated with 90L are gradually becoming better organized, with some spiral banding evident on the south side of the storm. Satellite intensity estimates from NOAA already put 90L at tropical depression strength with 30 mph winds, but the storm does not yet have a well enough formed circulation to be classified as a depression. Water vapor imagery shows that since 90L is forming several hundred miles south of the dry air of the Saharan Air Layer (SAL), the storm should not be affected by dry air and dust as much as Tropical Depression Two was. However, there is some dry air from the SAL being sucked into the circulation of 90L, and this is retarding its development.

Wind shear is moderate, about 10 - 15 knots, but is forecast to fall to the low range, 5 - 10 knots, later today. Shear is then forecast to remain low for the next five days. Sea Surface Temperatures are about 28°C, and will remain in the 27 - 28°C range the next five days. The combination of low wind shear and sufficiently warm SSTs should allow 90L to develop into a tropical depression by Saturday, and potentially reach hurricane strength by Wednesday. Most of our reliable models strengthen 90L into a hurricane by Wednesday, when the storm is expected to be near the northern Lesser Antilles Islands. One important outlier is the ECMWF model, which has 90L passing to the north of the islands, and eventually recurving out to sea east of Bermuda. The ECMWF was by far the most reliable model for forecasting hurricane tracks last year. However, all of our models are pretty unreliable going out 5 days in advance for systems that have yet to reach tropical depression strength. Once 90L becomes a tropical depression and develops a well-formed circulation, the models will have a better handle on forecasting where it will go.


Figure 1. The remnants of Tropical Depression Two (left side of image) and tropical wave 90L (right side of image).

Tropical Depression Two may come back
Tropical Depression Two died yesterday, but may rise again. Satellite loops of the remnants of the storm show that heavy thunderstorms are again attempting a comeback near the axis of what is now a tropical wave. However, dry air continues to interfere with the development of the thunderstorm activity, and moderately high wind shear of 15 - 20 knots is also inhibiting the process. Wind shear over the remnants of TD 2 is expected to remain in the moderate range, 10 - 20 knots, over the next four days. Sea Surface Temperatures (SSTs) are 27°C, but will warm to 28°C two days from now. There is plenty of dry, stable air from the Saharan Air Layer (SAL) to the north and west that will continue to cause the storm problems. The relatively cool SSTs and dry air mean that any re-development of the storm will be slow to occur. NHC has given the system a medium (30 - 50% chance) of becoming a tropical depression again by Sunday morning. Only one reliable model, the NOGAPS, is predicting regeneration of TD 2. The NOAA Hurricane Hunters are flying research missions into the remnants of TD 2 today and Saturday.

I'll have an update Saturday morning, or earlier, if significant developments occur.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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301. hurricanehanna 3:42 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting canesrule1:
ROFLMAO!!! I live in Miami and a lot of models are pointing here im not worried, i dunno what is his problem, lol.

I think he loves the thrill of a storm, then panics thinking they are all going to hit him....too much time on his hands if you ask me.
Member Since: Septiembre 5, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 3214
302. AussieStorm 3:42 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting StormW:


Hey!

Hey StormW, Do you think the next few weeks is going to be overly active?
Member Since: Septiembre 30, 2007 Posts: 5 Comments: 13324
303. NEwxguy 3:43 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Troughs here in the east have been pretty deep most of the summer,but now things are more summerlike,with troughs not very deep.
Member Since: Septiembre 6, 2007 Posts: 816 Comments: 13094
304. canesrule1 3:43 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting Chiggy007:
Can someone confirm LLC of 90L - I clearly it at 12N - 28W!!
305. HIEXPRESS 3:43 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Apologise for wasting blog space to say this but
Has any model really told us what we didn't know from climo - this time of year, anybody down wind could get a storm? If it forms watch it, if you find yourself in the cone (or near it), and you don't have a safe place to hunker down considering the worst case of possible rapid intensification, move out of the way.
Back to work.
Member Since: Octubre 13, 2005 Posts: 4 Comments: 2153
306. hurricanehanna 3:43 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting AussieStorm:

I get it all the time... I just refresh the page again.

Thanks Aussie - it worked!
Member Since: Septiembre 5, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 3214
307. mikatnight 3:43 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
TD2: The Little Engine That Could?

Member Since: Octubre 18, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1969
308. Txrainstorm 3:43 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting ftpiercecane:


He's probably putting up his storm shutters.

lol!
Member Since: Septiembre 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 94
309. AussieStorm 3:44 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting StormW:


You are? Are are you asking if I'm gonna be on?

I'm listening to the podcast of this morning/last night's show.
Member Since: Septiembre 30, 2007 Posts: 5 Comments: 13324
310. 786 3:44 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
exactly, all of this is speculation up until the last minute the steering changes. Dean was supposed to come right through Grand Cayman and within the hour it was due to hit it ended up going well South of us, we didn't even get rain! Paloma was supposed to be a direct hit and last minute went North of us. On the other hand Ivan was supposed to go North of us and last minute came right over. So really everyone should be prepared (that's never a bad thing) but there is NO telling where it will go - even when it is 5 days out. The tracks will continue to shift N and S.
Member Since: Agosto 18, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 910
311. Chiggy007 3:45 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Extreme: thank you Sir!

Seems like it's moved lot more West than the models had them only few hours ago at 26W!?
312. Drakoen 3:45 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting Grothar:
Hi guys...been away for awhile. Considerable activity in such a short time. DRAKOEN. Question: It would appear very little shear will interfere with 90L. From my limited observation it does not seem apparent that any weaknesses in the high would be strong enough to steer 90L to higher latitudes until after it reaches the islands. Is my assumption correct? Also, are you in ageement with the models (GFDL) showing such a strong system that soon. I would appreciate any other's comments. This is all quite interesting for a novice!


What the GFDL and other intensity model is a real possibility. Most of the models have significant strengthening of the system once it gets going.
Member Since: Octubre 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
313. TheCaneWhisperer 3:45 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Very possible to have 2 tropical depressions @ 5pm
314. canesrule1 3:45 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting hurricanehanna:

I think he loves the thrill of a storm, then panics thinking they are all going to hit him....too much time on his hands if you ask me.
LOL, i love going through hurricanes, and i remember andrew, when i went outside, we were receiving winds over 130MPH, and i was still loving it, i recorded it as-well, very breathtaking, but then u have to deal with the sadness of the death and devastation other people suffer.
315. scott1968 3:46 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Hi, looking for a link to any of the LONG RANGE models. Thanks in advance!
316. extreme236 3:46 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Member Since: Agosto 2, 2007 Posts: 19 Comments: 19234
317. canesrule1 3:46 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting TheCaneWhisperer:
Very possible to have 2 tropical depressions @ 5pm
agreed, i think we might have Ana by tomorrow.
319. TheCaneWhisperer 3:46 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting canesrule1:


That image is almost 4 hours old.
320. canesrule1 3:47 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting scott1968:
Hi, looking for a link to any of the LONG RANGE models. Thanks in advance!
Just click add all at the bottom of the model list and you good to go:Link
322. Chiggy007 3:48 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Canesrule:

That graphics you show re the position of 90L was at 12Z - that was some 4 hours ago now! On latest Sat images loop to me at least it look like 12N - 28W
323. mikatnight 3:48 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting canesrule1:
LOL, i love going through hurricanes, and i remember andrew, when i went outside, we were receiving winds over 130MPH, and i was still loving it, i recorded it as-well, very breathtaking, but then u have to deal with the sadness of the death and devastation other people suffer.


Gee I hope you don't let a little death and destruction rain on your picnic...
Member Since: Octubre 18, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1969
324. jpsb 3:48 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting MrSea:


Lol im not exactly sure why it happens, but its been happening to me every once in a while for the past 2 years.. so i doubt its a virus
I would be willing to bet that is the weather underground error message for a page not found error. Not sure how weather underground generates it pages, but sometimes a busy web server can error, when it does it defaults to an error page. No big deal, not a virus, just a busy server tring to keep up with demand.
Member Since: Junio 30, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 578
325. TheCaneWhisperer 3:49 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
1 - 2 punch brewing for someone? That's not good.
326. KEHCharleston 3:49 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting SavannahStorm:


Quite the spread.
Yep, pretty consensus 5 days out, then the spread begins.

Quoting PcolaDan:


Cue Jaws music.

LOL - Thanks for the giggles.
Member Since: Agosto 19, 2008 Posts: 6 Comments: 2490
327. RitaEvac 3:49 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Somewhat shocked to see models in the Gulf like this... this far out?

Member Since: Julio 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8899
328. scott1968 3:50 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting canesrule1:
Just click add all at the bottom of the model list and you good to go:Link


Thanks!
329. weathersp 3:51 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Born of the same mother...

Member Since: Enero 14, 2007 Posts: 17 Comments: 4112
330. CaneWarning 3:51 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting RitaEvac:
Somewhat shocked to see models in the Gulf like this...



The good thing, or bad thing depending on your perspective, is if this gets in the gulf these models have it going through PR, DR, and Cuba before getting there. Going up the spine of Cuba and the other islands would greatly diminish it.
Member Since: Abril 26, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
331. homelesswanderer 3:51 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting HIEXPRESS:
Apologise for wasting blog space to say this but
Has any model really told us what we didn't know from climo - this time of year, anybody down wind could get a storm? If it forms watch it, if you find yourself in the cone (or near it), and you don't have a safe place to hunker down considering the worst case of possible rapid intensification, move out of the way.
Back to work.


Lol. Sure throw logic and common sense into the mix. ;)
Member Since: Agosto 15, 2008 Posts: 10 Comments: 3665
332. canesrule1 3:51 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting Chiggy007:
Canesrule:

That graphics you show re the position of 90L was at 12Z - that was some 4 hours ago now! On latest Sat images loop to me at least it look like 12N - 28W
i think its at 12.3-ish and 28.1-ish, close yo ur guess.
333. sarahjola 3:51 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
that gfdl model run is scary. i have a bad feeling it might pull a Katrina and go across Florida and into the gulf and hit Louisiana and Mississippi. according to the models it is going to be a hell of a storm. gfdl says it'll be a cat. 3 before it hits the islands. i think its going to go right along the northern edge of the islands and not meet much to bring the strength down. gut feeling its a gulf storm, or bad nerves. lol! Texas may be in its path too. well its far away, but what do you all think about it being a gulf storm. does it look or feel that way to you? what about the steering currents? what and where are they and how can i read them to see where the steering currents might take it?
Member Since: Septiembre 10, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1291
334. mikatnight 3:52 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting weathersp:
Born of the same mother...



Would that be Mother Eff?
Member Since: Octubre 18, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1969
335. TexasHurricane 3:52 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting CaneWarning:


The good thing, or bad thing depending on your perspective, is if this gets in the gulf these models have it going through PR, DR, and Cuba before getting there. Going up the spine of Cuba and the other islands would greatly diminish it.


Yeah, but once it hits the GOM with that HOT water - who knows......
Member Since: Julio 2, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 2811
336. wunderkidcayman 3:53 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting TheCaneWhisperer:
Very possible to have 2 tropical depressions @ 5pm


Quoting extreme236:


the blog is going to go mad lol
Member Since: Junio 13, 2009 Posts: 2 Comments: 5417
337. canesrule1 3:53 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting mikatnight:


Gee I hope you don't let a little death and destruction rain on your picnic...
well never have one of my family members died from a cane, but no it doesn't rain on my picnic, lol!
338. jeffs713 3:53 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting RitaEvac:
Somewhat shocked to see models in the Gulf like this...


Some of those ensemble tracks that go right over Hispanola and Cuba are very similar to the 1900 Galveston storm. Right now, it is just too far out to make any kind of guess, beyond throwing darts at a map.
Member Since: Agosto 3, 2008 Posts: 15 Comments: 5722
339. Grothar 3:54 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thank you Drak.

As I may have mentioned before, I have a very good friend who is a meterologist. She informed me this morning that former TD 2 has a very good chance of strengthening again, although a much smaller system. Their test models would have TD2 coming very close to the islands and staying at a much lower latitude and maintaining a westerly movement before a turn to the WNW. Anyone have any opinions in reference to this scenario? I do not mean to be condescending to myself, but you all seem to have a much better understanding of these dynamics than do I.
Member Since: Julio 17, 2009 Posts: 56 Comments: 19527
340. TexasHurricane 3:54 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting RitaEvac:
Somewhat shocked to see models in the Gulf like this...


Have a link for this?
Member Since: Julio 2, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 2811
341. canesrule1 3:54 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting weathersp:
Born of the same mother...

you can make out the umbilical cord, lol.
342. extreme236 3:54 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Interesting blobs north of the Bahamas and off the southeast coast.
Member Since: Agosto 2, 2007 Posts: 19 Comments: 19234
343. Ameister12 3:54 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    

I have never seen the Atlantic this active all year long!
Member Since: Agosto 9, 2009 Posts: 9 Comments: 3517
344. hurricanehanna 3:55 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Press...I think I hear the call for Thorazine! I have officially put you in charge ;)
Member Since: Septiembre 5, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 3214
345. RitaEvac 3:55 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
I always knew there was just no way a hurricane going north of the Islands could come to SE TX. Ike changed all that, so now when I see something thats supposed to go north of the Islands I have to be somewhat hesitant to say I'm in the clear. But honestly that was a freak scenerio that we may never see again the path it took.
Member Since: Julio 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8899
346. weathersp 3:56 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting jeffs713:

Some of those ensemble tracks that go right over Hispanola and Cuba are very similar to the 1900 Galveston storm. Right now, it is just too far out to make any kind of guess, beyond throwing darts at a map.


My dart landed in Wyoming... crap there goes yellowstone.
Member Since: Enero 14, 2007 Posts: 17 Comments: 4112
347. rwdobson 3:56 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting RitaEvac:
Somewhat shocked to see models in the Gulf like this... this far out?<


Some ensemble members go to the gulf, some turn into fish storms. Basically all this tells you is that anything could happen.
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348. RitaEvac 3:56 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Member Since: Julio 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8899
349. mikatnight 3:57 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting weathersp:


My dart landed in Wyoming... crap there goes yellowstone.


LOL
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350. russh46 3:57 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Member Since: Agosto 13, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 92
351. weatherfan92 3:57 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting sarahjola:
that gfdl model run is scary. i have a bad feeling it might pull a Katrina and go across Florida and into the gulf and hit Louisiana and Mississippi. according to the models it is going to be a hell of a storm. gfdl says it'll be a cat. 3 before it hits the islands. i think its going to go right along the northern edge of the islands and not meet much to bring the strength down. gut feeling its a gulf storm, or bad nerves. lol! Texas may be in its path too. well its far away, but what do you all think about it being a gulf storm. does it look or feel that way to you? what about the steering currents? what and where are they and how can i read them to see where the steering currents might take it?


I think it's too far south for the steering currents to steer it away from the Gulf in time.

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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