Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Disturbance 90L close to tropical depression strength; TD 2 may rise again
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 2:02 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009 +4
A strong tropical wave (90L), with a large circulation and a moderate amount of heavy thunderstorm activity, is a few hundred miles southwest of the Cape Verdes Islands, off the coast of Africa. This morning's QuikSCAT pass shows that 90L has a large circulation, but this circulation is not yet well-formed, as it is elongated along an east-west axis. Satellite imagery from the European METEOSAT satellite show that the heavy thunderstorms associated with 90L are gradually becoming better organized, with some spiral banding evident on the south side of the storm. Satellite intensity estimates from NOAA already put 90L at tropical depression strength with 30 mph winds, but the storm does not yet have a well enough formed circulation to be classified as a depression. Water vapor imagery shows that since 90L is forming several hundred miles south of the dry air of the Saharan Air Layer (SAL), the storm should not be affected by dry air and dust as much as Tropical Depression Two was. However, there is some dry air from the SAL being sucked into the circulation of 90L, and this is retarding its development.

Wind shear is moderate, about 10 - 15 knots, but is forecast to fall to the low range, 5 - 10 knots, later today. Shear is then forecast to remain low for the next five days. Sea Surface Temperatures are about 28°C, and will remain in the 27 - 28°C range the next five days. The combination of low wind shear and sufficiently warm SSTs should allow 90L to develop into a tropical depression by Saturday, and potentially reach hurricane strength by Wednesday. Most of our reliable models strengthen 90L into a hurricane by Wednesday, when the storm is expected to be near the northern Lesser Antilles Islands. One important outlier is the ECMWF model, which has 90L passing to the north of the islands, and eventually recurving out to sea east of Bermuda. The ECMWF was by far the most reliable model for forecasting hurricane tracks last year. However, all of our models are pretty unreliable going out 5 days in advance for systems that have yet to reach tropical depression strength. Once 90L becomes a tropical depression and develops a well-formed circulation, the models will have a better handle on forecasting where it will go.


Figure 1. The remnants of Tropical Depression Two (left side of image) and tropical wave 90L (right side of image).

Tropical Depression Two may come back
Tropical Depression Two died yesterday, but may rise again. Satellite loops of the remnants of the storm show that heavy thunderstorms are again attempting a comeback near the axis of what is now a tropical wave. However, dry air continues to interfere with the development of the thunderstorm activity, and moderately high wind shear of 15 - 20 knots is also inhibiting the process. Wind shear over the remnants of TD 2 is expected to remain in the moderate range, 10 - 20 knots, over the next four days. Sea Surface Temperatures (SSTs) are 27°C, but will warm to 28°C two days from now. There is plenty of dry, stable air from the Saharan Air Layer (SAL) to the north and west that will continue to cause the storm problems. The relatively cool SSTs and dry air mean that any re-development of the storm will be slow to occur. NHC has given the system a medium (30 - 50% chance) of becoming a tropical depression again by Sunday morning. Only one reliable model, the NOGAPS, is predicting regeneration of TD 2. The NOAA Hurricane Hunters are flying research missions into the remnants of TD 2 today and Saturday.

I'll have an update Saturday morning, or earlier, if significant developments occur.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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1. stormdude77 2:03 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thanks for the update!
2. eddye 2:04 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
hello jeff masters
Member Since: Agosto 12, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 983
3. eddye 2:05 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
jeff you think it could be a depression by tonight
Member Since: Agosto 12, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 983
4. sailfish01 2:07 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Great site will all models on one page
http://raleighwx.easternuswx.com/models.html
Also Allan Huffman's Dailey Weather Page has a great synopsis of what is likley happen with 90L. Best I've seen anywhere.
http://www.examiner.com/x-4053-Raleigh-Weather-Examiner
Member Since: Octubre 20, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 96
5. cirrocumulus 2:07 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Hello! Good morning!
Member Since: Septiembre 30, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1606
6. tampahurricane 2:07 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thanks Jeff it will be a interesting week
Member Since: Mayo 28, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 287
7. Nashda 2:07 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thanks for the update!
8. hurfins 2:09 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
thanks for the update
9. fireflymom 2:09 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Always alert this time of year when you live on the GOM. Will keep watching and learning. It was very nice yesterday when I could see the sea-breeze wave coming in to interact with the storm line approaching Houston on the local radar and know that the line would be spreading a bit westward. Thanks for the providing the information and teachings to be able to do that.
Member Since: Junio 5, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 501
10. TampaMishy 2:09 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
So he is saying that 90L might recurve out to sea and not bother the east coast?
Member Since: Julio 30, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 1474
11. RitaEvac 2:10 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Long ways to go
Member Since: Julio 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8874
12. cyclonekid 2:10 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thanks, Dr. Masters.
Member Since: Julio 14, 2009 Posts: 51 Comments: 1615
13. PELSPROG 2:11 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thanks Dr. Masters.
Member Since: Septiembre 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 65
14. tampaENG 2:10 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
The models are unreliable at this point except for formation, but not path.
If the true centers of these form 100 miles in ether direction, the angle project will be off by 500 miles 10 days later.
The worry over a Flordia or Gulf path is premature.
These both could go fish or Yucatan.
Member Since: Agosto 17, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 97
15. eddye 2:14 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
slow blog
Member Since: Agosto 12, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 983
16. WxLogic 2:14 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thx Doc
Member Since: Agosto 14, 2008 Posts: 4 Comments: 4666
17. TampaMishy 2:14 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Very slow in here this morning.
Member Since: Julio 30, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 1474
18. canesrule1 2:15 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting eddye:
slow blog
yup
19. SQUAWK 2:17 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting TampaMishy:
So he is saying that 90L might recurve out to sea and not bother the east coast?


What he said is that it is too early to tell. Have to wait until it becomes a well formed TD before the models will get a decent handle on the potential track.
Member Since: Diciembre 9, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2497
20. Drakoen 2:15 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thanks for the update
Member Since: Octubre 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
21. TampaSpin 2:16 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
I think it will become TD2 by the end of the DAy Dr. Masters...Shear has been the main culprit the entire time with old TD2. Yes its been in dry and dust air but, Shear has caused it not to get going.
Member Since: Septiembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
22. claimsadjuster 2:16 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Drak, what is your take on 90L
23. IKE 2:16 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
ECMWF shows the system near 13N and 37W by Monday...3 days from now. It's already nearing 30W and should be around 45-50W(depending on speed), by Monday.
Member Since: Junio 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37044
25. sailfish01 2:18 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Can someone tell me how to post a link?
Member Since: Octubre 20, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 96
26. Drakoen 2:18 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Tight consensus on going towards the northern islands or just north of there
Member Since: Octubre 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
27. TampaSpin 2:18 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
I don't understand something why when NHC takes the Depression lable off a storm is it then not considered an Invest .....Heck its better organized than most Invest that are labeled...
Member Since: Septiembre 2, 2007 Posts: 175 Comments: 19747
29. SQUAWK 2:18 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting TampaSpin:
I think it will become TD2 by the end of the DAy Dr. Masters...Shear has been the main culprit the entire time with old TD2. Yes its been in dry and dust air but, Shear has caused it not to get going.

How can it become TD2? We already had TD2.
Member Since: Diciembre 9, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2497
30. HurricaneKyle 2:19 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting TampaMishy:
So he is saying that 90L might recurve out to sea and not bother the east coast?


Only one model predicting it, its an outlier in my opinion. It makes it to slow.
Member Since: Agosto 10, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 672
31. extreme236 2:19 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting SQUAWK:

How can it become TD2? We already had TD2.


He means the remnant low becoming TD2 again.
Member Since: Agosto 2, 2007 Posts: 19 Comments: 19234
32. Drakoen 2:19 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting IKE:
ECMWF shows the system near 13N and 37W by Monday...3 days from now. It's already nearing 30W and should be around 50W by Monday.


ECMWF is too slow
Member Since: Octubre 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
33. mobilegirl81 2:20 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
The models are way too familiar with Georges, Frederic, and David,especially Georges track
Member Since: Agosto 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 833
34. extreme236 2:20 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting TampaSpin:
I don't understand something why when NHC takes the Depression lable off a storm is it then not considered an Invest .....Heck its better organized than most Invest that are labeled...


It is still an "invest" just not in the traditional sense. They are still running models and stuff on it as a "LOW"
Member Since: Agosto 2, 2007 Posts: 19 Comments: 19234
35. jipmg 2:20 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting SQUAWK:

How can it become TD2? We already had TD2.


No he is talking about the remnant low of TD 2, he expects it to regenerate itself and become TD 2 once again
36. cg2916 2:20 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Hey guys. I know some of you use the ATCF database. I just found out something. It's illegal to use it unless you work for NOAA or the government.
Member Since: Diciembre 21, 2007 Posts: 13 Comments: 2908
37. weatherboykris 2:20 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting Funkadelic:
I dont know where canesrule1 is getting a catagory 4 storm coming to SFLA. Now im not down casting but it is likely that 90L will interact with land, and hopefully some tall mountains before it comes in SFLA's "General" direction.

Now keep in mind this is 10-13 days away so anything can happen. When they send a plane in there to gather data in and around 90L, we may see a major model shift. So just be prepared for anything mother nature may throw at you.


That's true. Usually after they fly in to the storm, and particuarly when they fly Gulfstreems around the atmosphere surrounding it, the models will shift.
Member Since: Diciembre 9, 2006 Posts: 125 Comments: 11343
38. HurricaneKyle 2:21 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
This is the second time in 4 years that jeff has had a blog with part of the title 'TD # may rise again', take a guess what that other one was.
Member Since: Agosto 10, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 672
40. RitaEvac 2:22 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Hurricane Ike was supposed to go out to sea or threaten Florida, so no experts have a clue what its gonna do.
Member Since: Julio 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8874
41. jipmg 2:21 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
TD 2 is definately coming back..
42. chsweatherintern2009 2:22 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Alot of things have to happen for the storm to impact the usa. I am giving it about a 60% chance but it really all depends on the strength pf the storm and how far the trough can dig
Member Since: Mayo 18, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 52
43. TheCaneWhisperer 2:22 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Thank You for your input Dr. Masters. Next week is going to be a nail biter for many people.
44. PensacolaBuoy 2:22 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Is it proper to call 02L a wave when it still has a closed LLC? I'm confused. It seems like remnant low would best describe it without convection. Anyway, I still think this will become Ana before 90L has a chance to get it's considerably more chunky self spinning.
Member Since: Julio 28, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 348
45. extreme236 2:22 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting cg2916:
Hey guys. I know some of you use the ATCF database. I just found out something. It's illegal to use it unless you work for NOAA or the government.


Source of this information is? And if it was illegal why would it be on a website available to the public?
Member Since: Agosto 2, 2007 Posts: 19 Comments: 19234
46. IKE 2:23 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting Drakoen:


ECMWF is too slow


I edited my post. Should be between 45-50W by Monday, depending on speed.
Member Since: Junio 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37044
47. nfloridandr 2:24 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
the ecmwf model also has the carribean disturbance and remnant td2 going into the gulf
Member Since: Junio 1, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 70
48. cg2916 2:24 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting extreme236:


Source of this information is?

I'm on a really old Windows ME computer, and it uses Windows Explorer instead of Internet Explorer, and it has the description in a panel on the left, and it said it is unlawful to use it otherwise.
Member Since: Diciembre 21, 2007 Posts: 13 Comments: 2908
49. Drakoen 2:25 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting claimsadjuster:
Drak, what is your take on 90L


It has increase it's convection significantly overnight. The upper level easterlies are 10-20knots which is keeping most of the convection on the western side of the system. As it continues to move to the WNW it should find more favorable conditions. Right now I agree witht he GFDL/HWRF track they are very tightly clustered and I still want to lend some credit to the ECMWF and the GFDL and HWRF provide the fastest solution of an ECMWF like track 5 days out. Then we'll be watching to see if the ridge can keep it moving to the WNW. The GFS and UKMET are the southern most solution provided 90L gains less latitude.
Member Since: Octubre 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
50. claimsadjuster 2:25 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Ike, What is your "gut" feeling as far as 90L? Do you think it will end up in the gulf states?
51. weatherboykris 2:25 PM GMT en Agosto 14, 2009    
Quoting extreme236:


Source of this information is? And if it was illegal why would it be on a website available to the public?


Technically, any images of the Euro model that are not SLP or 500mb heights are illegal...that doesn't mean they aren't out there ;)...doesn't hurt anyone.
Member Since: Diciembre 9, 2006 Posts: 125 Comments: 11343

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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