Additional Lake Effect Snow...

By: Zachary Labe , 9:27 PM GMT en Noviembre 17, 2008

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"Afternoon Thoughts" (Updated 11/17)
Extremely exciting weather week resembling a typical winter week in Pennsylvania with clippers and lake effect snow. I will be posting several blogs this week to focus in on each event. This second blog will cover the major lake effect snow outbreak starting Monday night through Tuesday night. It will also cover the weak clipper moving through that may affect some areas. A third blog will be issued Wednesday evening covering the clipper system passage on Thursday and the lake effect snow to follow that through Friday night. And then of course a new blog will be issued Sunday of that weekend to account for next weeks weather and Thanksgiving Weather. So overall a busy weather week is ahead for lots of us resembling a typical northwest flow in late December.

As we all know each NWS has a different threshold for posting winter weather warnings/advisories. For example in the southeast last winter during one of the winter storms in Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi they had winter storm warnings out for 2-4inches of snow. But here in Pennsylvania they would only issue winter storm warnings for accumulations above 6inches. It all is dependent on how adapt locals are to driving in winter weather. For example nearly 6inches of snow would shut down Atlanta for days, while over a foot and a half of snow would be needed to shut down Northeastern cities. Well doing one of my morning runs through the NWSs, I noticed that Sterling, VA NWS was going to be operating a new system during this winter for Public-Impact Advisories during the winter. For example a winter weather advisory last winter meant snowfall would be greater than 2inches and less than 5inches. Now if winter storms occur during rush hour with as little as 1inch of snow, a winter weather advisory will be issued. It all is dependent on the time of hour the storm hits and the amount of impact on local traffic patterns. Here is a link from their public information statement… Link. Now many other NWSs have been talking about something similar to this such as snow squall warnings during the winter. I believe that is an even better idea to issue snow squall warnings instead of the special weather statements, which no one even takes serious. Many major car accidents every winter are caused by white out conditions during snow squalls. Here is a link to a great case study of implementing warnings during snow squalls… Link. So overall it will be interesting to see how this new system works in the Washington DC. My personal opinion is the public needs to have a basic set of advisories or warnings. If you get to many special warnings then they will not understand the thresholds and not take things seriously. Your comments are also welcome. Have a great day!!!

"Current Surface Plot"

(Courtesy of HPC)

"Regional Radar"

(Courtesy of Wunderground)

"Regional Advisories"

(Courtesy of NOAA)

"Forecast Discussion" (Updated 11/17)
This forecast discussion is from Monday night through Wednesday night. Currently a shortwave type clipper system is moving through the Middle Atlantic printing out some 10-15dbz over Maryland and Virginia with mostly it being rain or virga. Undefined cold front attached to clipper is swinging through region shifting the winds from southwesterly to northwesterly and bringing in some even colder temperatures with H85s dropping to near -11C by early Tuesday morning and 1000-500mb thicknesses near 515, which is several deviations below normal for this time of year. Water temperatures in Lake Erie in the upper 40s combined with a cold blast of nortwesterly air will bring widespread lake effect snow activity across much of the state with decent Omega values and dendrite growth. Current clipper will try to reform off the coast and throw some light .1inch QPF back into parts of the coastline maybe into near Philadelphia. Winter weather advisories are out for parts of the Delmarva, but I have a hard time seeing them pick up any accumulations above 1inch on elevated surfaces. Coastal storm will pull away keeping the northwesterly flow around with occasional gusty winds mixing down to the surface up to 30mph. H85s continue to drop to near -14C across northern Pennsylvania with winds veering to the north bringing an end to widespread lake effect as high pressure and a cold ridge approaches from the west. High pressure moves over region Tuesday night to provide some clearing through Wednesday until clouds approach from west ahead of the next clipper system to bring some snow showers starting as early as Wednesday evening. Overall pattern looks very unsettled for western and northern Pennsylvania with temperatures statewide below normal by nearly 10-15degrees.

"Regional Satellite"

(Courtesy of Penn State Meteo.)

"Current Water Vapor Loop"

(Courtesy of Penn State Meteo.)

"Weekly Forecasts" (Updated 11/17)
Tuesday- In the morning widespread lake effect snow shower activity should be around the state with a thick stratocumulus deck. Fog on ridgetops is likely across western Pennsylvania with ceilings below 1000ft. Some impressive snow bands should be into parts of the Laurel Highlands with snow rates of 1-2inches per hour with some areas seeing totals near a foot of snow especially for westward facing ridges with elevations above 2000ft. Snow bands will also be intense in northwestern Pennsylvania near Oil City, Butler, Bradford, Erie, Du Bois, Meadville, and Franklin. Snow accumulations in that area will range from 2-5inches. Snow showers will be widespread across central Pennsylvania with a coating in some areas to maybe an inch. Eastern Pennsylvania will mainly be seeing morning flurries with a few isolated snow showers. Temperatures will be well below normal by a good 10degrees for highs on Tuesday with highs struggling to reach 40degrees in many areas, excluding Philadelphia. Western and northern Pennsylvania will see highs below 32degrees with highs below 30degrees in some mountaineous locations such as Johnstown and Bradford. Winds will be a bit breezy out of the north-westnorth gusting occasionally to 30mph and maybe 40mph on the ridgetops. Winds will gradually be shifting to the north. For Tuesday night lake effect snows will gradually ease with last bands near Erie giving an additional inch. Some clearing may occur Tuesday making for what could be a very cold night. Lows will be in the mid 20s for many areas with some upper teens possible for northern Pennsylvania in areas that have snow pack.

Wednesday- Wednesday will be a cold but sunny day across the state as high pressure dominates the weather. A few flurries may occur in northern Pennsylvania, but other than that partly cloudy to sunshine will prevail. Highs will be the coldest of the week so far struggling to reach the mid 30s even for eastern Pennsylvania. Highs in central Pennsylvania will be near freezing and highs in western Pennsylvania will be in the mid 20s. Winds will be generally light out of the due north. Clouds will begin to move in from the west by afternoon along with some light snow showers by dusk near Pittsburgh. Overnight clouds will move over the entire state with scattered snow showers mainly from Altoona-State College-Lock Haven and westward. Accumulations will generally be less than an inch even for the ridgetops. Lows will be cold near 10degrees below normal generally in the 20s statewide with some low to mid 30s in the Philadelphia metro area. Winds will be turning gradually to the west.

"Current River Ice Reports and Ski Conditions" (Updated 11/15)
Well after this cold spell probably next week we will be talking about some ice reports of small ponds and maybe even a few early ski resorts opened up in the Laurel Highlands such as Blue Knob and Shawnee Mountain Ski Area. Snow pack will be building up out that way and conditions will be cold enough to keep the snow pack around along with even some snowmaking. So for those early skiers here in Pennsylvania, you may be able to get out there by this coming weekend and next week towards Thanksgiving. Very nice start to the season. Also some local ponds may start to be gathering ice on the very tops and should be very thin. But still it could pose some problems as it makes it look deceivingly thick especially for younger local children. Water temperatures right now are dropping relatively steadily already in the upper 40s across the shoreline of Lake Erie. This is cold enough to cause hypothermia if fallen into water for an extended period of time. Water temperatures will be rapidly falling throughout this coming week. Snow pack will also be building up in the Adirondacks and Tug Hill Plateau in New York for skiing next weekend along with the White and Green Mountains. Also mountains into Garret County, Maryland and West Virginia may see up past a foot of snow. Stay tuned for more updates on local ski reports. Here is a list so far of planned openings for ski resorts…

Ski Sawmill... 12/08
Ski Liberty... 12/05
Shawnee Mountain Ski Area... 11/29
Camelback Ski Area... 12/05
Blue Mountain Ski Area... 12/05
Whitetail… 12/08

-Link to official reports page from NWS...Link.
-Link to local ski resort snow conditions...Link.

"Current Northeast Snow Depth and Northeast Windchills"

(Courtesy of Wunderground)

"Lake Effect Snow Conditions" (Updated 11/17)
A nice fetch into the Laurel Highlands will aid into some big time snow totals. For most of Sunday through Sunday night lake effect snow bands were confined in northwestern Pennsylvania with a 300 trajectory fetch. Some very heavy accumulations fell in parts of northwestern Pennsylvania with 16inches of snow reported in Warren County and other heavy reports of over 6inches in Erie County including the downtown region. A shortwave type clipper system is rotating across West Virginia and Maryland currently bringing a return to a northwesterly flow along with colder air. H85s will be dropping below -10C by midnight Monday night with a 310 trajectory becoming more and more northerly as the night progresses. With some decent Omega and ice crystal growth along with relatively non-dry dewpoints and PWATs near .5inches, there should be a pretty widespread lake effect outbreak especially Monday night into early Tuesday morning. This outbreak will favor locations more south of where the first outbreak of lake effect took place. Decent orographic lift in the Laurels will result in heavy snow with western facing valleys receiving even a few inches of snow. Bands look to be setting up with a primary Huron-Erie streamer into Somerset County bring the western facing ridges QPF near .75inches with 15:1 snow ratios resulting in nearly a foot of snow especially for Mt. Davis and Laurel Summit. Lake effect snow bands will also be in other parts of the Laurels in Westmoreland and Fayette Counties where orographic lifting will not be as favorable resulting in snow accumulations near 6inches on the ridge tops. Another decent band is looking to setup as a Huron-Erie Streamer near the classic 322 setup potentially bringing the western ridge and valley region near State College and maybe even Lewistown a nice C-2inches of snow with places like Mt. Nittany and Seven Mountains seeing the higher end of those accumulations. Lastly a final major band should setup as a Georgia Bay-Erie streamer affecting western and northwestern Pennsylvania in the Venango-Forest-Elk-Cameron County type vicinity with some possible accumulations near 3inches or slightly more. Snow showers and flurries though will be statewide with a heavier snow shower bringing some areas a coating of snow to areas in northeastern Pennsylvania, Poconos, and Ridge and Valley region. Flow will begin to turn more northernly and H85s will drop to near -13C bringing a slow end to the lake effect snow on Tuesday with only a few weak bands across the state. The latest guidance shows possibility of a band coming off of Lake Erie into Erie County, so I added a decent 5-9inches in that region. Overall though lake effect for this outbreak will favor the Laurel Highlands.

Additional lake effect snow Monday night through Tuesday night...


"Current Lake Erie Wind Direction and Speed"

(Courtesy of NOAA)

"Current Lake Erie Water Temperature"

(Courtesy of NOAA)

"Long Term Outlook" (Updated 11/15)
So is the cold pattern going to continue through the rest of November past Thanksgiving? Well in this section I will highlight my forecast. Based on past climatology, typically extended cold patterns like this one are not able to last through an extended period of time. There usually has to be a time for the weather pattern to reload up in the Arctic with a relaxation of the jet stream in the United States. Based on what I am seeing I think we keep the cold weather with well below normal temperatures up until Thanksgiving. Between Thanksgiving and December 1 I think we will see a relaxation of the pattern with a Pacific zonal flow. Now something interesting is that the zonal flow may still keep temperatures below normal, as snow pack will have already developed across much of the nation’s northern regions such as the Dakotas and Great Lakes. This will keep the cooler air over the Northeast preventing a real blowtorch of very mild temperatures. During this time the pattern will reload up into the Arctic and northern Canada. Latest GFS does keep the pattern very cold through December 1, but I believe this is an exaggeration of the cold based on a cold-GFS bias. But then the 12z EURO run from Friday afternoon showed extremely cold temperatures around this period, but then this morning’s 0z run showed a more transient weather pattern. So in a way I am sort of going against the grain. I do think by mid to late week of the first week in December we will see an arctic blast that will hold its ground over the region for almost all of December creating a very stormy period. So overall I do not think the pattern is capable of any extreme periods of warmth any time in the foreseeable winter. I do not want to jump the gun, but the pattern is sort of looking eerily similar to December of 95. Remember some meteorologists had the winter of 95-96 as an analog year for this winter. So overall this pattern is quite interesting with many opportunities of snow, and if we can build up an early snow pack here in November across the Lakes, then I think we are in for quite an interesting December. Stay tuned.

"Current NAO and PNA Predictions"

(Courtesy of NOAA)

"Monthly Outlook" (November)
So hard to believe October has already passed, but it has and we are now entering November. Looking at my October outlook I called for normal to slightly below normal temperatures with normal precipitation. Looking at most official climate stations most areas came in with below normal temperatures around 1-2degrees below normal. I am very pleased with my temperature forecast, but as for precipitation almost all areas were below normal in precipitation and many areas did not see rain until the last few weeks in the month. It seems the Fall season has been pretty dry in consideration to normal. Snowfall was highly above normal in all locations with snowfall totals over a foot in parts of the Poconos and areas in western Pennsylvania saw record monthly snow totals including Pittsburgh which I believe saw the 8th snowiest October on record. Looking at now November there are some better signals for the temperature and precipitation totals than there were last month. Last month there were few signals for the overall pattern.

Temperature- Temperatures look to be near normal across much of Pennsylvania, except southern Pennsylvania which should see below normal temperatures. Across other parts of Pennsylvania I cannot rule out some slightly below normal reports. It seems that the first half of the month will favor above normal temperatures, but clouds from marine layers in an easterly flow will keep temperatures closer to normal in the south. The positive temperature departure should be much higher in the north and west than in the south and east come mid month. By midmonth teleconnective signals are showing a dive-bombing AO along with a positive PNA and a negative NAO. I am thinking the second half of the month will be very cold and that pattern should continue through December. Looking like some nice Greenland Blocking will develop. EURO weeklies and GEFS indicate this pattern switch come midmonth, but the operational GFS is a bit slower to show this pattern change. So overall looking at normal to below normal temperatures statewide.

Precipitation- I think precipitation will be near normal. I am looking at a more active storm track than recent months, but still not anomalous in comparison to normal. Coastal storms look possible along with warm air advection events especially near the pattern switch come midmonth. Snowfall looks to be near normal with almost all areas likely seeing their first accumulating snow before the month’s end. Lake effect snows look possible along with some nuisance clipper type events. Looks like snowfall will be in quite a positive start in comparison to normal for parts of eastern and western Pennsylvania as we head into the start of winter.

"Temperature and Precipitation Outlooks from Climate Prediction Center for next 30 days"

(Courtesy of NOAA)

-Winter 2008-2009 forecast... Link.
-Winter 2008-2009 forecast update... Link.

"Here northeast of Harrisburg 2008-2009 winter statistics"
(Snow Stats)
Current Snow Cover- Coating
Monthly Total- Coating
Seasonal Total- Coating
Winter Weather Advisories- 0
Winter Storm Warnings- 0
Heavy Snow Warnings- 0
Blizzard Warnings- 0
Snow Advisories- 0
Winter Storm Watches- 0

(Temperature Stats)
Lowest High Temperature- 43
Lowest Low Temperature- 26
Wind Chill Advisories- 0
Wind Chill Warnings- 0

(Snow Storms Stats)
First Snow - October 29 - Trace
First Snow on Ground - November 18 - Coating

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80. Snowlover2010
9:42 PM GMT en Noviembre 20, 2008
Any possibility we get minor accumulation(coating to an inch) from the snow tomorow?
Member Since: Enero 7, 2008 Posts: 2 Comments: 1003
79. Zachary Labe
8:56 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
TheDawnAwakening- I be glad to help out, but when the weather quiets down in terms of snows and unusual cold weather.
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
78. TheDawnAwakening
8:48 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Sounds good Blizzard. I want to do a fictional series of discussions on an Ocean Effect Snow but need a list of factors that will determine a rather significant Snow event for Cape Cod, MA. Can you help me out Blizzard?
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
77. Zachary Labe
8:37 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
TheDawnAwakening- The best chance probably looks to be Saturday as the coastal storm pulls a 365trajectory (5degree) keeping a north-northeast flow with best chance of light snow over eastern part of the Cape. Temperatures will definitely be cold enough to support snow.
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
76. TheDawnAwakening
8:29 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Blizzard do you think the winds could veer more northerly as the coastal low takes over, giving us some Ocean Effect Snow?
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
75. Zachary Labe
8:17 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Thanks all for stopping in!!! Looks like winter traffic has begun. New blog coming out later today concerning tonight's clipper and the lake effect snow for Thursday and Friday. Stay warm everyone!!!

weathergeek5- Absolutely freezing here this morning. I would not have wanted to use mass transit this morning.

TheDawnAwakening- Nice to hear you saw some snow; seems all in all my forecast was pretty decent. A single band usually most always stronger than multi-bands allowing the focus and dendrite growth to take place in the single band.

JDinWPA- Looked like a band setup over your region early this morning. Any additional snowfall accumulations? Thanks for your reports.

TheRasberryPatch- I would not be surprised to see some coatings in our area tonight, more on that with the blog later today. Those fires images out of California are horrible. And just imagine having to deal with situations like that every year out there.

MDFirefighter- Good to hear you got some flakes after last year's horrible winter for your area. Seems like everybody has seen their first snow now here on the blogs.

dragonflyF15- I love December snows; so nice for the holidays. Thanks for stopping by! Have a nice afternoon!!!

sullivanweather- Hope you get some more lake effect in the coming days. Some very thin sheet ice is forming around here already even after this afternoon. Hard to believe.

Stanb999- Wow 15degrees, stay warm. I heard in Bradford they were down to 6degrees, amazing. Rim ice forming even here too. I guess you will be busy winterizing the farm in the coming days in preparation for more snow.

PalmyraPunishment- That squall was nasty around 5pm. I was out in it, and it left a nice coating of snow here northeast of Harrisburg. It is putting me in the mood for the holidays too. I always love this time of year.

pittsburghnurse- Thanks for your report. I hate ice too and after the two recent ice storms in my area from the Valentine's Day Icestorm of 2007 with 9inches of sleet/snow here and after the Ice Storm of December 2007 with .75inches of freezing rain, I am definitely done with ice. Snow pack will gradually start to build in your area mainly in shaded locations for now. Some northern sides of the ridges out that way may have a continuous snow pack building from now until next mild spell, which has yet to be seen.
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
74. TheDawnAwakening
8:06 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Sully, is a single band stronger then multiple bands say for ocean effect?
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
73. TheRasberryPatch
5:44 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
pittsburght nurse - it won't leave until June. its the start of another mini ice age and all the tree huggers won't know what to say. haha just kidding
Member Since: Enero 26, 2007 Posts: 72 Comments: 6260
72. pittsburghnurse
4:54 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Hi Blizz. About an inch of snow remains on the grassy surfacs and gullies. It was 14F in Pittsburgh on awakening. Skies were clear but there's a hazy overcast taking over now fighting with the sunshine for dominance. I love sunshine on fresh snow. The sun is still winning the battle with the gray winter pall. What snow fell during the sleep hours was of the dry fluffy variety, easy to sweep off the car and not threatening to drivers. There was about a half-inch overnight. Yesterday's snow was a different story. I got stuck at the bottom of a hill on a patch of ice. My car parallel parked itself against a guardrail and there was just no getting off. So uphill I walked to my daughter's house, or skated would be more accurate, hoping I would not fall and break my butt, huffing and puffing and quietly alternating between cursing and praying. Oh yes, I love snow but the ice is another matter altogether. We are not friends.

It's now lunch time and the snow is not melting. The snowpack has begun. I wonder how long it will stick around.
Member Since: Octubre 14, 2006 Posts: 1 Comments: 639
71. sullivanweather
4:45 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Speaking of lake effect, there's a nice expending area of lake effect heading my direction.

With increasing moisture due to the trough moving in and a backing flow towards a more westerly component is allowing for the snow to expand east and south.
Member Since: Marzo 8, 2007 Posts: 273 Comments: 12612
70. sullivanweather
4:43 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Dean,

In lake effect terms, deltaT's is the difference in temperature between the water temperatures and the 850mb temperature.

Typically, this is what you will see...

12-16°C - moderate instability
16-20°C - strong instability
20°C+ - extreme instability.

Of course, other factors also determine the amount of lake effect someone will see as in synoptic moisture, inversions heights, upstream connections (Lake Huron/Superior), aligned flow, directional shear sloft, etc.
Member Since: Marzo 8, 2007 Posts: 273 Comments: 12612
69. PalmyraPunishment
4:36 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Greetings All,

awesome little snow squall last night on the commute home between Manada Hill and the banks of the Susquehanna River. Moron drivers on I-81 South were slowing down and driving erratically as if the roads were ice. r-tards.

loving all this cold and snow! in a way it's getting me into the holiday spirit. just hoping that soon we get something that i can jump in, roll around in, and throw at people.

imagine that: a 23 year old kid making snow angels. hah.

it doesn't even have to be a big storm right now (save those for january, february, and march when they're most appreciated) -- i would be completely stoked if decemeber "nickle and dimes" us to death with 3-4 inch snowfalls. let's see it happen!

snooooooooooow!
Member Since: Enero 31, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 2250
68. Stanb999
3:54 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Blizzard,

Let me tell ya, It was dam cold this morning. 15F. We have a light coating of snow from the lake effect snows of the last few days (about 3"). Local ponds are getting ice coatings. But as you say it's thin. Time to get the snow tires on the little car.... Studs help more than you could imagine.

My late fall weather has ended and transformed to early winter. The leaves are gone, the pasture is brown, the sky has that cold hard look of winter. The animals on the farm are heavy with fur. The ducks still like a good dunk in the water dish tho. The chickens are coming out of molt so with the aid of artificial light fresh eggs are here. The winter birds are here in abundance.
Member Since: Septiembre 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 444
67. TheDawnAwakening
2:45 PM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Delta Ts are the temperature differentials between water and air right? Also we have about less than a coating on the ground from the Ocean Effect Snow. It was all snow and no rain besides in the morning of yesterday. The bands never materialized into one solid band, instead just a light band here and there. Pretty light snow showers with a temp of 32.7F. Prospects for snow on Friday and Saturday?
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
66. sullivanweather
8:13 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Quoting JDinWPA:
Hi Bliz. Sorry to disappoint but most of my snow melted today, 50% of the yard is bare ground again. I was in Butler today and they are pretty much snowless.

We get lake-effect snow, lake-effect rain and lake-effect clouds anytime the wind is out of the North to WNW, depending on the temps and wind speed. (And the condition of the lake. I've been watching that temp of Erie chart you've been posting. The water is already down to 50 and below so it might just freeze this year. Lake-effect machine shut off!) Another thing to remember on days like today, is that, sure there were bands of snow moving through, but in between the bands of snow quite often there are bands of clear skies. The sun is still pretty strong even when the temp is below freezing and the ground hasn't froze yet. We probably got about 4" of snow today but 85% - 90% of it has melted. Which is too bad because the snow would've helped insulate plants from the cold tonight. Last I looked, it was clear out.


You can still get lighter lake effect snows even with a frozen lake. Enough latent heat flux does manage to make it's way through the ice to provide for lake snows, but these are much lighter AND you need a brutally cold airmass overhead to get the necessary deltaT's.
Member Since: Marzo 8, 2007 Posts: 273 Comments: 12612
65. dragonflyF15
8:09 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
No snow yet here...not a big surprise.

Can I put an order in for some snow in STL on December 20th? Like enough so I can go out sledding Art Hill for my birthday? :)

Member Since: Febrero 13, 2006 Posts: 194 Comments: 2152
64. MDFirefighter
7:52 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Saw some flakes today :D
Member Since: Febrero 11, 2006 Posts: 1 Comments: 1201
63. TheDawnAwakening
3:18 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Blizzard, those bands are trying to set up into one band with the returns more widespread. What do you think this will end up as? One band or multiple?
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
62. TheRasberryPatch
2:56 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Blizz - take a look at these pictures from the California wildfires. pretty amazing.Link
Member Since: Enero 26, 2007 Posts: 72 Comments: 6260
61. JDinWPA
2:41 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Hi Bliz. Sorry to disappoint but most of my snow melted today, 50% of the yard is bare ground again. I was in Butler today and they are pretty much snowless.

We get lake-effect snow, lake-effect rain and lake-effect clouds anytime the wind is out of the North to WNW, depending on the temps and wind speed. (And the condition of the lake. I've been watching that temp of Erie chart you've been posting. The water is already down to 50 and below so it might just freeze this year. Lake-effect machine shut off!) Another thing to remember on days like today, is that, sure there were bands of snow moving through, but in between the bands of snow quite often there are bands of clear skies. The sun is still pretty strong even when the temp is below freezing and the ground hasn't froze yet. We probably got about 4" of snow today but 85% - 90% of it has melted. Which is too bad because the snow would've helped insulate plants from the cold tonight. Last I looked, it was clear out.
60. TheDawnAwakening
2:32 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Would there be any dynamic cooling in ocean effect snow bands?
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
59. TheRasberryPatch
2:22 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
how far south do you see the widespread coatings, Blizz? sounds good. my kids had to go outside and try to catch some flakes this afternoon during that shower. they had just come in and taken their shoes off when the shower came through.
Member Since: Enero 26, 2007 Posts: 72 Comments: 6260
58. TheDawnAwakening
2:13 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
38.6F in a harbor about 2 miles from my house where the Harwich, MA observations are taken. Its partly cloudy last time I checked.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
57. weathergeek5
2:07 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Just walked 20 minutes from the bus stop to my house. It is Cold!!!!
Member Since: Diciembre 25, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1744
56. Zachary Labe
1:51 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
TheDawnAwakening- I see the bands are nice and wide, but lacking central organization. How are temperatures there?
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
55. Zachary Labe
1:50 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
TheRasberryPatch- Yea, it turned out to be a great weather day! More snow showers are headed our way from Wednesday night through Friday night. I will have more on that tomorrow afternoon. From what I see there is an even better chance for widespread coatings of snow Wednesday night through Thursday morning.
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
54. TheDawnAwakening
1:50 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
I see that Blizzard. Should make for an interesting night. Thats fine. I wasn't making a big deal of it, i just wanted you to know how I felt about that.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
53. TheRasberryPatch
1:46 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Wow, another coating of snow. too cool. i guess the ticks should be gone by now. nothing like that in my area. just a brief shower this afternoon.
Member Since: Enero 26, 2007 Posts: 72 Comments: 6260
52. Zachary Labe
1:22 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
Quoting Blizzard92:
TheRasberryPatch- Nice snow shower on radar near Selinsgrove moving my way. Temperature here is 32degrees, so maybe I can weasle out a coating before nightfall.

Well the snow shower moved through about one hour later with a very heavy burst of snow dropping another coating of snow slightly heavier than this morning. Still at this hour the ground is covered and will most likely be covered the rest of the night.
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
51. Zachary Labe
1:14 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
TheDawnAwakening- Lol, I do not mind. I see a few weak echo bands setting up. It still appears it will be nothing much more than flurries. As for Friday and Saturday wind trajectory is around 290-300 instead of what you need of a 360 trajectory. So I think the best chance of any ocean effect snow would be tonight.

hurigo- Wow that is extremely cold for your area. Thanks for the links; interesting how Bay Effect snow works. There was one outbreak I remember with quite an impressive band off of the Chesapeake, but I cannot remember when. That radar image was saved an archive, but yet I cannot remember where, lol. O well.

TampaFLUSA- Thanks for your concern. All is well here. Thanks for stopping by!
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
50. TheDawnAwakening
12:11 AM GMT en Noviembre 19, 2008
What are you talking about Tampa? I want different opinions. Like any snow lover you want to hear good news, but that doesn't take away in my opinion of how good of a forecaster they both are. By no means am I trying to show them up or anything like that. I'm glad for your concern, but that is not why I'm doing this. Plus when the NWS sees something in a forecast that say favors something different then what they are thinking I want to know what they are seeing differently as well. Forecasting is all in one's opinion of interpretting a set of data the models put out. So by no means am I disrespecting Sully, or Blizzard.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
49. TampaFLUSA
11:54 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
TheDawnAwakening not to be rude, but you ask Sulli the same question yesterday, and when you don't get the answer you want, you ask Blizzard. Now you don't like his answer so you post the same question in Sulli's blog. How do you think it makes them feel?
Member Since: Junio 21, 2007 Posts: 10 Comments: 1657
48. hurigo
11:20 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
Snow flurries at Oceana NAS

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/11/light-snow-reported-near-oceana-virginia-beach
Member Since: Octubre 9, 2005 Posts: 100 Comments: 6731
47. TheDawnAwakening
11:14 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
000
FXUS61 KBOX 182224
AFDBOX

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TAUNTON MA
525 PM EST TUE NOV 18 2008

.SYNOPSIS...
AN OFFSHORE LOW PRESSURE WILL COMBINE WITH A HIGH PRESSURE ACROSS THE
GREAT LAKES TO BRING UNSEASONABLY COLD AIR TO SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND
INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK. GUSTY WINDS AND SOME SNOW SHOWERS ARE EXPECTED
ACROSS PORTIONS OF CAPE COD AND NANTUCKET TONIGHT AND THURSDAY.
OTHERWISE...LITTLE MEASURABLE PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED INTO EARLY
NEXT WEEK.

&&

.NEAR TERM /UNTIL 6 AM WEDNESDAY MORNING/...
-- Changed Discussion --
UPDATED THE FORECAST EARLIER TODAY TO INCLUDE SCT SNOW SHOWERS OVER
SW NH AND THE EAST SLOPES OF THE BERKSHIRES...WHICH WILL CONTINUE
INTO THIS EVENING. ALSO NOTING RADAR SHOWING MORE RETURNS INTO
CENTRAL AND EASTERN MASSACHUSETTS...BUT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE
REACHING THE GROUND EXCEPT MAYBE A FEW FLURRIES. NOT SEEING ANY
REPORTS FROM ASOS AT THIS POINT.

FOR TONIGHT...EXPECT SNOW SHOWERS TO END OVER WESTERN AREAS WITH
SUNSET...JUST AS BANDING APPEARS TO BE STARTING TO FIRE UP OFF CAPE
COD. NOTING A LITTLE BIT OF ACTIVITY NE OF THE CAPE AS WELL AS THE
OUTER EDGE OF THE STRENGTHENING LOW S OF NANTUCKET.

WHILE SKIES BECOME MOSTLY CLEAR OVER INTERIOR AREAS...CLOUDS WILL
CONTINUE TO DEVELOP ON THE INCREASING NORTH WINDS ACROSS
MASSACHUSETTS BAY AND THE GULF OF MAINE AND HEAD SOUTHWARD. BUFKIT
MODEL SOUNDINGS INDICATING INCREASING LAPSE RATES OVERNIGHT OVER THE
CAPE AND NANTUCKET...ESPECIALLY FROM THE MID CAPE EASTWARD. SEA
SURFACE TEMPS OVER CAPE COD BAY STILL IN THE LOWER 50S...DOWN TO
AROUND 50 OVER NANTUCKET SOUND. WIND TRAJECTORY FROM 360-010
DEGREES...SO SET UP PERFECTLY FOR DEVELOPMENT OF SNOW BANDS OVER THE
MID AND OUTER CAPE AND NANTUCKET. HAVE PUT IN CHANCE-LIKELY POPS FOR
THESE AREAS...ESPECIALLY AFTER MIDNIGHT AS TEMPS CONTINUE TO TUMBLE.
EXPECT MAX TIME FOR DEVELOPMENT OF SNOW BANDS WILL BE AFTER MIDNIGHT
THROUGH AROUND SUNRISE OR SO. AT THIS POINT...HAVE NOT MENTIONED ANY
SNOW ACCUMULATIONS WITH THE WARM GROUND...BUT THIS WILL NEED TO BE
MONITORED CLOSELY. WILL NEED TO SEE NOT ONLY WHERE THE BANDS SET
UP...BUT WHETHER THEY DROP A LOT OF SNOW.

ALSO EXPECT WINDS TO REACH ADVISORY LEVEL FOR THE OUTER CAPE AND
NANTUCKET FOR LATER TONIGHT THROUGH MID MORNING ON WEDNESDAY...SO
ISSUED A WIND ADVISORY. WILL BE A BLUSTERY NIGHT ALONG THE IMMEDIATE
EAST COAST AS WELL.

EXPECT OVERNIGHT LOWS TO RANGE FROM THE MID-UPPER TEENS OVER SW NH
AND THE EAST SLOPES OF THE BERKSHIRES TO AROUND 30 ON THE CAPE AND
THE LOWER-MID 30S ON NANTUCKET.
-- End Changed Discussion --


&&

.SHORT TERM /6 AM WEDNESDAY MORNING THROUGH WEDNESDAY NIGHT/...
-- Changed Discussion --
EXPECT LEFTOVER SNOW BANDS TO DISSIPATE AS WINDS BEGIN TO
BACK TO NW DURING WEDNESDAY MORNING...AS WELL AS TEMPS SLOWLY
REBOUNDING EVEN WITH THE COLD AIRMASS OVERHEAD. WINDS WILL ALSO
DIMINISH BY AROUND MIDDAY.

AS THE LOW SLOWLY MOVES E AND WEAK HIGH PRES RIDGE BUILDS ACROSS NY
STATE...EXPECT GENERALLY CLEAR TO MOSTLY CLEAR SKIES...WITH
IMPROVING CONDITIONS FOR THE CAPE AND ISLANDS.

WILL BE VERY CHILLY FOR THIS TIME OF YEAR...AS HIGHS STRUGGLE TO THE
MID AND UPPER 30S EXCEPT AROUND 40 ON THE CAPE AND ISLANDS.

WEDNESDAY NIGHT...MAINLY CLEAR AND COLD. CLOUDS WILL APPROACH FROM
THE WEST AFTER MIDNIGHT ESPECIALLY OVER THE CT VALLEY INTO SW NH
WITH NEXT CLIPPER TYPE SYSTEM IN THE FLOW THAT MOVES SE ACROSS NY
STATE. WITH FAST FLOW ALOFT...TIMING IS A BIT OF AN ISSUE...THOUGH
MODELS HAVE BEEN RATHER CONSISTENT IN KEEPING THE BULK OF ANY PRECIP
W OF THE REGION BY THURSDAY. OVERNIGHT LOWS WILL BE EVEN CHILLIER
THAN TONIGHT WITH LIGHTER WINDS AND MAINLY CLEAR SKIES.
-- End Changed Discussion --


&&

.LONG TERM /THURSDAY THROUGH TUESDAY/...
18/12Z MODELS ARE IN DECENT AGREEMENT THROUGH SATURDAY...THEN DEVELOP
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK. THESE DIFFERENCES STEM
FROM THE EVOLUTION OF MID LEVEL FLOW OF THE NEXT WEEK. TIMING AND
AMPLITUDE SPREAD LEADS TO LOW CONFIDENCE OF STORM TRACK EARLY NEXT
WEEK. PREFERRED TO STAY CLOSE TO CONSENSUS SOLUTION THROUGH
SATURDAY...THEN SWITCH TO A BLEND CLOSER TO THE ECMWF THEREAFTER DUE
TO THE ECMWF/S SUPERIOR PERFORMANCE AT THIS TIME RANGE.

EXPECTING BELOW NORMAL TEMPERATURES INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK. USED A
BLEND OF THE LATEST GRIDDED GFS MOS AND PREVIOUS FORECAST TO AVOID
MAKING DRASTIC CHANGES DUE TO LOW CONFIDENCE.


MAINLY DRY WEATHER EXPECTED THROUGH NEXT TUESDAY. COULD SEE SOME
OCEAN-EFFECT SHOWERS OFFSHORE THURSDAY INTO SATURDAY...BUT NOT A VERY
HIGH PROBABILITY. HIGH PRESSURE BECOMES MORE OF A FACTOR SUNDAY. THEN
WE GET INTO THE PROBLEMATIC PORTION OF THIS FORECAST. COULD SEE WARM
AIR ADVECTION PRECIPITATION BEGIN AS EARLY AS EARLY MONDAY MORNING...
BUT THINKING MORE LIKELY START TIME WILL BE TOWARD MONDAY AFTERNOON
AT THIS TIME. KEPT THE PROBABILITY OF PRECIPITATION LOW UNTIL THE
TIMING COMES INTO BETTER FOCUS.


This Taunton, MA NWS discussion sounds more promising tonight.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
46. hurigo
11:13 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
Hey Blizz et al
It is COLD here. It's about 38 w/steady NW wind at 15 and gusts in lower 30s. I had to run to the grocery store on the way home from work and it was most uncomfortable. The poor clerks at the check out lines were all bundled up and giggling over the cold wind. Our normal temps this time of year are in the 60s so this is sumptin', as we say.

I did not witness any snow today, but I have reports about there being some in Chesapeake VA near the NC border. One of our WU bloggers, JanetLee reports snow flurries in New Bern, NC

My computer doesn't allow me to actually view this video (because I haven't figured it out yet), but here is a link to a local reporter's report.

http://www.wvec.com/video/topvideo-index.html?nvid=304865
Member Since: Octubre 9, 2005 Posts: 100 Comments: 6731
45. TheDawnAwakening
10:36 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
I don't know Blizzard. Matt Noyes said that if the winds just became uni directional with no shear element then we would have quite a significant band of ocean effect as well as rather dry air and quick winds at the surface. Thoughts on the Friday through Saturday possibilities? The WRF says there's the possibilities.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
44. Zachary Labe
9:39 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
philliesrock- Nice summary. Teleconnections are looking near perfect for something along east coast. GFS shows a stormier regime over the region from Thanksgiving and beyond with the continued cold pattern through the forseeable future.

***A nice cozy day on Mt. Washington in New Hampshire with an air temperature of 0.7degrees, a windchill of -24degrees, and a fresh 4.5inches of snow.
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
43. philliesrock
9:34 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
To take a break from the short-range and current stuff - here's an analysis I put together on why we will have a snowstorm in late November or early December.

Link
Member Since: Junio 29, 2006 Posts: 65 Comments: 3197
42. Zachary Labe
9:14 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
WxWyz- No not really too far. I am about 10miles northeast of Harrisburg.

Pretty nice snow pack building up with more snow to come this week...
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
41. WxWyz
9:10 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
Looking more closely at your radar, I guess you really aren't as far from the lake as I imagined.
Member Since: Agosto 2, 2007 Posts: 352 Comments: 3847
40. Zachary Labe
9:05 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
TheRasberryPatch- Nice snow shower on radar near Selinsgrove moving my way. Temperature here is 32degrees, so maybe I can weasle out a coating before nightfall.

wxgeek723- Good to hear you saw some flurries. Your area has had some pretty horrible winters in recent history. Hopefully this one will be better. Temperature down to 32degrees here, I even saw some sheet ice this morning on the local farm ponds!
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
39. wxgeek723
9:02 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
So today my area suffers from a cold, brisk, January-like day with a high of what 38? I think our average high for January is 42; January being the coldest month. I finally saw snow flurries today at around 3:15! I was afterschool finishing work. I thought I saw a snowflake for a second but thought I was seeing things. Five minutes later and it was flurrying! Supposedly it snowed in my area on October 28, but I didn't catch that. However, my neighbors did come home with some slush on their cars.
Member Since: Agosto 28, 2008 Posts: 79 Comments: 3648
38. TheRasberryPatch
9:01 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
just got a snow shower that coated the pool cover.
Member Since: Enero 26, 2007 Posts: 72 Comments: 6260
37. Zachary Labe
8:34 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
TheRasberryPatch- I love these types of days and watching the snow showers roll along the mountain. A snow shower is coming right now turning parts of the mountain in a fog of white. So interesting to watch.
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
36. TheRasberryPatch
8:32 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
Blizz, high today was 37.2 and the low was 26.6. the dewpt is now 20
temp now is 34 and falling
Member Since: Enero 26, 2007 Posts: 72 Comments: 6260
35. Zachary Labe
8:09 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
hurigo- Lol, I was quite excited this morning. Nothing quite like first snow of year. It is brutally cold today with a high of 34degrees here and snow showers all day. January?

pittsburghnurse- Thanks for your report. I heard officially at downtown Pittsburgh they had 1.8inches, which is a pretty decent total for this time of year for lake effect in Pittsburgh. The little coating we had here this morning was on the roads too somewhat, which sort of surprised me.

TheDawnAwakening- Yep, it just is not the time of year for snows in the Cape Cod vicinity. Snows in November don't really occur on the coast usually inland. Snow showers here all day. Wish I could send some up your way.

JDinWPA- Thanks for your report. Looks like my snow map verified for your area pretty well. I did not know your area did so well during north-northwest winds for lake effect until last night. I will have to keep that in mind for future forecasts.

TheRasberryPatch- 14degrees, wow, that is cold. Lol, finally saw your first flakes. I guess last night one of the Huron-Erie streamers reached my area for a short time period while breaking up over Blue Mountain only giving my place a coating and areas to the east probably only flurries overnight. The high has been 34degrees here which is even below normal for a January high. Hard to believe. It could be a cold night if the clouds clear. Dewpoint 15degrees here.
Member Since: Diciembre 14, 2007 Posts: 284 Comments: 15112
34. TheDawnAwakening
5:30 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
It looks like ocean effect is a bust, the winds continue to change direction and are not staying northerly. I guess you were right Blizzard, the factors just aren't favorable right now this time of year. Another chance at Ocean effect snow on Thursday perhaps this is a little more favorable as temps will be cooler, but wind direction is question mark right now.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
33. TheRasberryPatch
5:22 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
I finally saw my first flakes of the season late this morning.
What a cold day today.
Member Since: Enero 26, 2007 Posts: 72 Comments: 6260
32. TheDawnAwakening
4:28 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
Clouds have that winter feeling here.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
31. TheDawnAwakening
4:28 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
WRF model shows a pretty decent band of ocean effect setting up over Cape Cod, MA in the next four hours. Theres a band to our east right now showing signs of forming over offshore currently. Its partly cloudy here with a temperature of 40F.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970
30. TheDawnAwakening
2:23 PM GMT en Noviembre 18, 2008
Nothing but freakin rain showers with a temp of 39.4F. This really stinks. There is not bands yet.
Member Since: Octubre 21, 2008 Posts: 246 Comments: 3970

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Cornell University- Atmospheric Sciences Undergrad; Research Assist.- Onset of Spring Indices Toolbox; Interests- Small spatial scale climatolology

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